BR Bullpen talk:Notability

The following classes of people, teams, and leagues may need some clarification.

People

All are notable:

• played baseball in an international competition
• Major League Baseball umpires
• Major League Baseball coaches
• team owners
• league presidents

Some may be notable, and a criteria may be established:

• actors: had a starring role in at least one baseball-themed movie
• minor league coaches: ?
• minor league executives: ?
• college players: I have a listing of every All-American since the 1940s, are they all notable? My guess would be no, but where is the notablity bar; two selections?
• drafted players: I have also have listing of every player drafted in both the MLB and NPB drafts, are they all notable?
• college coaches: ?
• political figures, national office as a requirement with a tangiable link to baseball
• authors: the absolute minimum should be one published book
• writers: ?
• researchers: ?, case-by-case
• amateur players, especially in pre-professional eras
• fans: ?
• scouts: ?
• fictional charecters: ?

Teams

All are notable:

• players were professionals or the league that the team is/was in at the top level of baseball in the country

Leagues

All are notable:

• players were professionals or the league is/was at the top level of baseball in the country

Other

• books

--MichaelEng 00:47, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

Minor league coaches and executives - I don't see a need to draw lines here. If we have enough material for an entry, throw it in.

College players - I'd say no, unless they played professionally or had a superb collegiate career (record-setting, very unusual feats, etc.). We had discussed one or two Japanese college stars who never got to play as they died in WWII - those are notable.

Drafted player - Only if they're famous in some other way (in another sport), were a very high draft pick and didn't sign or if they became involved in baseball in another capacity (Rick Tomlin)

College coaches - At least anyone who made it to the College World Series should be profiled

Political figures - We already have begun to put in every US president. Otherwise, people involved in baseball - Dick Thornburgh has a page, Earl Warren is linked to but not up yet, etc.

Writers - I'm willing to go with a pretty loose standard of anybody who covered baseball regularly for a publication

Researchers - I've only been tackling those whose work has been cited

Fans - Only famous ones. Bartman, Hilda, etc.

Scouts - Any are fair game IMO

- --Mischa 06:02, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

I think that there should be some kind of quality standard for leagues and international competetions. Minor leagues (in whatever country) are OK, but semi-pro leagues should be out unless they were important enough that they produced multiple players who went on to high-level play. Similarly, international competetions should be sanctioned by the top level baseball organizations in their countries. So players who had participated in the European Championship would count as noteworthy, while those who played in the Little League World Series wouldn't.

For books, writers, and researchers, I would allow a page for any non-fiction book that is cited as a reference or source for an article, and any non-fiction book that is about baseball and was written by somebody who already passes the noteworthyness test. The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers would qualify under the first, while Ball Four, Pitching in a Pinch, and The Long Season would qualify under the second. Works of fiction count if baseball is a central element of the story, but not if it simply gets peripheral mention. Unless they're otherwise noteworthy, authors should have to publish at least two books to get a page; if they've published just one noteworthy book the discussion of the author can go with the discussion of the book. Researchers are noteworthy if they've contributed research that is cited by multiple articles. --Roger 10:01, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

How many articles shuld be citied for researchers. I also added a qualifier for United States President since baseball (as we know it) has onnly been around since the mid-19th c. so people like Millard Fillmore do not get a page. --MichaelEng 22:45, 17 September 2006 (EDT)

I think any minor league player or NPB player or Negro League player is really fair game; it will just take a while to address them. - --Mischa 08:33, 18 September 2006 (EDT)

Where do the Summer Collegiate Leagues fit in here? --Jeff 12:48, 6 July 2007 (EDT)

I think we should include the Summer Collegiate Leagues and any other semi-pro league, or at least long established ones with a bit of history. I'm pushing to include the Intercounty Baseball League as a category for players. The league has been around for 80 yrs or so, and has quite a history in Canada. Any league that has an established history, and that includes or has included ex-pro players should be notable (pro anywhere in the world, not just the MLB/Minors)

We include the Can-Am league, and we have an article on other semi-pro leauges. I'm inclined to include any league that has actual adult "baseball" players, not simply leagues with people getting together after work to toss a ball around (like the local weekend baseball league).Oaktree_b 22:16, 30 September 2009 (EDT)

Notability standards

I am having a hard time with how the current policy reads. I think it needs to be redrafted. For example - what is the benefit of having a "baseball fan" on here? Can't anyone who likes baseball be defined as a baseball fan? Does that make them notable? Baseball guy 23:43, 6 July 2007 (EDT)

The fan category is pretty small, and they're all notable for one reason or another. --Jeff 23:47, 6 July 2007 (EDT)

• I'm not saying that a fan can't be notable, only that the standards seem to be pretty poorly laid out. Baseball guy 03:05, 7 July 2007 (EDT)

1) I think it would be a good idea to explain what a notable fan would be. I think a Steve Bartman or Morganna certainly qualifies but how do we define if someone is newsworthy enough?

2) As for summer collegiate leagues, I certainly think that they are notable and should be added in. Lots of MLBers come through them, especially ones like the Cape Cod League.

3) Players from the Cuban Serie Nacional strike me as being notable even if they're all "amateur" players. The Cuban leagues are higher-quality than the KBO or CPBL and we have categories for all of their players - --Mischa 06:39, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

• I think those are all excellent points. I think we need to enhance the quality of "support" pages on here. One question I have: Should any player who ever played minor league baseball be included? If this were wikipedia, i would say no. But this isn't. I have a bit of a problem with how many stubs are being created on wiki, but I think the goals of this project and that project are substantially different. Baseball guy 17:51, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

I think it's fine to have pages for all minor leaguers on the Bullpen - we have a specifically baseball-focus, so we can afford to be more encompassing on those fronts than wikipedia. I think they're too many stubs both here and at wikipedia, FWIW. That's somewhat of a philosophical question - some people think that if you make the page, it increases the chances of it being filled in, but I'd rather have the pages here be relatively complete. - --Mischa 18:00, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

• I'm with you on the stubs. I don't like creating stubs that have no real content. I don't mind some minor effort to create a brief page, but i think people are less inclined to work on pages for "less notable" players when they see something there. Baseball guy 04:09, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

I know that I'm much more inclined to fill in a "red link" (wanted page) than a stub. - --Mischa 12:20, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

• Well i am too. You've been around longer than I have. What do you suggest we do? Baseball guy 00:48, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

I try to encourage people to post more complete articles, but it's a matter of personal preference and I don't think a set policy should be drawn up to forbid the practice. - --Mischa 11:25, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

• Do you trust me to rework some of the notability stuff on here? Baseball guy 15:54, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

If you want to make some changes, that's fine. We'll see what people think about them and if they're good. - --Mischa 17:18, 10 July 2007 (EDT)