The Jeter Meter
Posted by Steve Lombardi on September 30, 2008
Here's a random yet fun slice of the big baseball pie via Baseball-Reference.com's Play Index Batting Game Finder...
Since 1956, players with the most games where they reached base 2+ times within the first 1,985 games of their career:
Games Link to Individual Games +-----------------+-----+-------------------------+ Wade Boggs 1180 Ind. Games Frank Thomas 1179 Ind. Games Rickey Henderson 1169 Ind. Games Edgar Martinez 1136 Ind. Games Jeff Bagwell 1134 Ind. Games Derek Jeter 1120 Ind. Games Manny Ramirez 1116 Ind. Games Joe Morgan 1108 Ind. Games Barry Bonds 1107 Ind. Games Chipper Jones 1102 Ind. Games Gary Sheffield 1087 Ind. Games Jim Thome 1079 Ind. Games Alex Rodriguez 1077 Ind. Games Carl Yastrzemski 1072 Ind. Games Pete Rose 1072 Ind. Games Tim Raines 1071 Ind. Games Bernie Williams 1062 Ind. Games John Olerud 1062 Ind. Games Frank Robinson 1061 Ind. Games Paul Molitor 1053 Ind. Games Tony Gwynn 1052 Ind. Games Craig Biggio 1052 Ind. Games Mark Grace 1048 Ind. Games Rod Carew 1039 Ind. Games Roberto Alomar 1028 Ind. Games +-----------------+-----+-------------------------+
Say what you want about Derek Jeter...but, you can't say that he doesn't reach base...and often. (And, yes, I used 1,985 games since that's the number of games that Jeter has played in his career, so far.)
September 30th, 2008 at 10:49 am
It doesn't rhyme, but shouldn't you call it the Wade Boggs Meter? 🙂
September 30th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
except for Edgar Martinez, the first 16 are, will be, or should be in the Hall of Fame.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Kingturtle, I agree with you, great stat for hall of fame caliber players. But why not edgar martinez? He has great numbers and is above or at the average for HOF Standards and HOF Monitor on his stats page and around HOF average for Black and Grey Ink stats.
September 30th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Martinez was certainly a great hitter, but has very little defensive value and couldn't run at all his last several seasons. Was his hitting great enough to overcome that? I'm not sure. I can't say he shouldn't be a HOF, but I can't say he should, either.
Those HOF standards were calculated by Bill James almost 20 years ago, and were meant only to show certain statistical standards that inductees have met. They are not meant to predict who should be in the HOF, and they have little utility for players who compiled most of their numbers in the high-offensive era when Martinez played.
September 30th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Not to slam Jeter. But he's number 7 on this list, and you have to go all the way to #15 (Yaz) to find someone with a career OB% lower than Derek's, even including all their decline phases.
IMO, a career DH should collect 400 career win shares to have a HOF presumption. The HOF itself lists Paul Molitor (404 ws) as a DH. Frank Thomas's total is 406. I can't find a computation for 2002, but Edgar Martinez's career total would appear to be no more than 320. ZimJim, don't take this as a firm thumbs-down, just as my idea that he doesn't have a presumption in his favor and needs a lot of justifying argument.
October 1st, 2008 at 12:35 am
Edgar wasn't a great defensive player no doubt, but I don't think the Hall is reserved for only players that are well-rounded. Edgar is known predominantly as a DH, and the Hall, whether you agree with the DH rule or not, needs representation in the HOF because it is a big part of baseball. So who better to put in than a player who many call the greatest DH of all time? Molitor and Thomas should be in there too, as far as I'm concerned.
Of course, this is coming from a Seattle fan. This may be about all I have to look forward to for the next few years. Stats aside, he is the only great player who was a career-long Mariner, he was instrumental in all of the M's successful seasons, and everyone loved him. There are things that should count for something beyond statistics when it comes to the Hall.
October 1st, 2008 at 7:07 am
Edgar Martinez played 32% of his games as a fielder. 32%!! Even Molitor managed 56%. For me that takes a lot out of Edgar's Hall of Fame potential. Can we get a list of other players who have played 65%+ career games at DH?
October 1st, 2008 at 8:17 am
65%+ career games at DH (minimum 1000 career games at all positions): Edgar, Hal McRae (230 ws), David Ortiz (180 ws; he's played about 60% as much as the other two).
Edgar's iconic status in Seattle should count for something; it's then a question of how much, and of how much is "needed" beyond his statistics.
What happens to Jim Thome (c. 350 ws)? Does he need more ws than Tim Raines (390)? Is there a some other valid metric that puts his accomplishment, with two more years at 2008 rates, ahead of Tim Raines's? (I don't think so.)
October 1st, 2008 at 10:40 am
Agreed that HOF players need not be well-rounded, but presumably they must reach some level of total value to get inducted. (Obviously, different voters have different levels, and different ways of calculating value.) Martinez's inability to play the field impacts the value he had. I'm not saying a career DH should be ineligible for the HOF, but the offense required from one is more than required from anyone else, and I'm not sure Martinez quite gets there.
Raines had a longer career than Thome has had, hence more WS. The seasons Raines played in NY were helpful for the Yankees, but I don't think add much to his HOF resume. Which player had more 25-WS seasons, more 30-WS seasons? WS essentially has a replacement level of 0. Anyone who plays collects some WS. Use a measure with a higher replacement level (or something like Win Shares Above Bench, which I believe is calculated at Hardballtimes.com) and you may find a different answer. Not to say either is definitely correct, but were I a HOF voter, I would focus on a player's value in his prime, and possibly completely ignore the seasons when he was below average.
October 6th, 2008 at 8:20 am
I'm also interested in players who get on base at least one time during the game, here's the top five:
Frank Thomas 1758 Ind. Games
Jeff Bagwell 1758 Ind. Games
Derek Jeter 1737 Ind. Games
Wade Boggs 1725 Ind. Games
Edgar Martinez 1719 Ind. Games
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/Pj9H
There's Jeter again.
And i'm also interested in who avoided the oh-for, so here's the list of getting at least one hit (not including walks). I call it the "avoiding the oh-for" list:
Derek Jeter 1539 Ind. Games
Tony Gwynn 1517 Ind. Games
Pete Rose 1474 Ind. Games
Paul Molitor 1471 Ind. Games
Wade Boggs 1471 Ind. Games
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/2pbN
Well, lookit that. Jeter is on top.