Making a Habit of Losing
Posted by Raphy on April 29, 2008
Yesterday I wrote about the players who won their first 6 starts. Then I heard the news that Barry Zito had been sent to the bullpen after losing his first 6 starts. So without further ado, here are the players (since 1956) who have 6 or more losses in consecutive appearances, all starts, to begin a season.
StreakStart Streak End Games W L GS CG SHO GF SV IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA HBP WP BK Teams +-----------------+-----------+-----------+-----+------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Chuck Stobbs 1957-04-16 1957-05-24 9 0 9 9 1 0 0 0 42.1 56 41 38 21 25 8 8.08 1 1 0 WSH Mike Boddicker 1988-04-04 1988-05-14 8 0 8 8 1 0 0 0 46.1 56 38 30 18 35 6 5.83 7 2 4 BAL Josh Towers 2006-04-05 2006-05-09 7 0 7 7 0 0 0 0 30.1 54 35 34 12 18 9 10.09 2 0 1 TOR Edgar Gonzalez 2004-06-05 2004-08-24 7 0 7 7 0 0 0 0 34 54 34 33 13 20 11 8.74 3 2 1 ARI Mike Maroth 2003-03-31 2003-05-01 7 0 7 7 1 0 0 0 41.1 44 27 26 5 24 4 5.66 3 2 0 DET Dave Lemanczyk 1978-04-07 1978-05-13 7 0 7 7 1 0 0 0 31.1 39 31 30 18 11 8 8.62 0 3 0 TOR Barry Zito 2008-03-31 2008-04-27 6 0 6 6 0 0 0 0 28.2 41 30 24 15 11 4 7.53 0 1 0 SFG Jeff Weaver 2007-04-10 2007-05-10 6 0 6 6 0 0 0 0 22 50 35 35 7 12 4 14.32 1 1 0 SEA Jack Morris 1989-04-04 1989-05-01 6 0 6 6 3 0 0 0 37 45 21 18 15 33 3 4.38 0 3 0 DET Dave Stewart 1984-04-05 1984-04-29 6 0 6 6 0 0 0 0 30.1 36 25 25 18 19 7 7.42 1 2 0 TEX Ray Burris 1982-04-11 1982-05-09 6 0 6 6 2 0 0 0 36.2 43 21 16 15 13 4 3.93 0 1 0 MON Mike Morgan 1979-06-27 1979-07-24 6 0 6 6 0 0 0 0 33.2 48 29 23 26 4 2 6.15 0 0 0 OAK Fritz Peterson 1972-04-17 1972-05-14 6 0 6 6 0 0 0 0 37.1 41 22 16 11 19 1 3.86 2 0 1 NYY Luis Tiant 1969-04-08 1969-05-07 6 0 6 6 1 0 0 0 33.2 46 33 31 19 24 11 8.29 1 0 0 CLE
I'll add just a few quick notes.
1) Zito's streak will end with a relief appearance. Here is what ended the 13 previous 6+ game streaks:
a) Win: 6 (Morris, Stewart, Towers, Lemanczyk, Morgan & Peterson)
b) No Decision 6 (Boddicker, Gonzolez, Maroth, Weaver, Burris & Tiant)
c) Relief Appearance 1 (Stobbs)
2) 3 of the pitchers (Stobbs, Maroth & Tiant) lost 20 or more games.
3) Fritz Peterson was the only one to come back and finish over .500. Mike Boddiker (with the help of a team change) came close.
4) Edgar Gonzalez only made 10 starts all season. He went 0-9. This is the 4th most losses by a winless pitcher. His ERA+ of 50 ranks as the 9th worst in a season among pitchers with at least 10 starts.
April 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Whose start here was the most surprising? I would guess Tiant's. The previous year (1968) he had been lights-out (ERA+ of 186). And after these six starts, he improved in 1969 (ERA 3.00 the rest of the year, vs. a league average ERA in 1969 of 3.74.
April 29th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Wow. That's some drop-off Tiant had.
In 1968 he lost his 7th game in his team's 108th game.
In 1969 he lost his 7th game in his team's 28th game.
April 30th, 2008 at 1:33 am
1968 -- Commonly known as the year of the pitcher.
After one of MLB's most pitching dominant season, they decided to lower the mound to 10 inches to put more power to the batter.
Find me a pitcher whose stats didn't severely drop from 1968 to 1969...
actually, that might be a great stat of the day topic
April 30th, 2008 at 4:54 am
Tiant's ERA increased 2.11 points. That was the second largest jump among pitchers who qualified for the title in both years. Only Steve Blass had a harder time adjusting.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:46 am
SmrtCubFan's reminder about the mound lowering means that Tiant in the spring of 1969 had a "drop off" in two respects. But, as noted in post #1, by June he did adjust, or get over his arm trouble, or compensate somehow for whatever factors accounted for his terrible 1969 beginning.
I was also intrigued by Mike Maroth, who, after all, allowed only 49 base runners in 41 innings while losing seven straight. He was pitching for a pretty bad team that year. And this kind of thing happened. On May 1, he had a no-hitter for 7 innings. Then he got to 2 out and 2 on in the 8th. Wild pitch, single, and he's out of the game, and his relief gives up 4 straight base runners on the way to a Maroth no-decision. . . . Four of Maroth's first 7 losses came in games when HIS game score was 60 or higher (and in the other three, he stank).
April 30th, 2008 at 9:23 am
on note number 4 you'll see everyone above (below?) edgar gonzalez on that list made relief appearances too...
April 30th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Tiant missed a lot of '70 and '71 with arm injuries, and I wonder if he was already bothered in '69. He then returned in '72 as a junkballer and had a great second act to his career.
April 30th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Because of Tiant's 186 ERA+ in 1968, I ran a search to see how often a pitcher is that superior to the rest of the hurlers in a particular year. The answer is 66 times, ERA+ 185 or higher, 162 minimum innings. The first time was Cy Young in 1901. In 1968 Luis Tiant was joined at that level by Bob Gibson (ERA+ 258, Stat O' the Day April 20, 2008).
Highest ERA+ (easily available on the Leader boards) is Pedro Martinez, ERA+ 291 in 2000. 1997 is the only year in which four pitchers so distinguished themselves: Clemens, Martinez, Maddux, R. Johnson.
Three pitchers finished at the ERA+ 185 level in five seasons: Martinez, R. Johnson, and W. Johnson. Two finished there or above in four seasons: Maddux and Lefty Grove. Clemens is alone in recording a 185+ ERA in three seasons.
April 30th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Everyone always ignores the 19th Century. Amos Rusie had a 189 in 1894, and Clark Griffith 190 in 1898.
It was also done a few times in the 1880s, but I do like to draw a line in 1893 when the mound was moved back.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
DmbCubFan wanted pitchers whose stats didn't severely drop from 1968 to 1969.
Juan Marichal's ERA went from 2.43 to 2.10. Steve Carlton's went from 2.99 to 2.17.
Tom Seaver saw essentially no change, 2.20 to 2.21. Larry Dierker, huge improvement, 3.31 to 2.33.
Gaylord Perry didn't change much, 2.44 to 2.49. Phil Niekro improved a hair, 2.59 to 2.56.
And that's just the NL.
Of course, ERA overall went up from 1968 to 1969, but not a few pitchers managed to swim against the tide.
May 1st, 2008 at 5:04 am
To add to gerry's point. There were 16 pitchers who qualified for the ERA title in 1968 and 1969 and had a lower ERA in the second year. Two pitchers stayed the same. Here is the list.
1968 1969 Change
Larry Dierker 3.31 2.33 -0.98
Jim Maloney 3.61 2.77 -0.84
Steve Carlton 2.99 2.17 -0.82
Joe Niekro 4.32 3.7 -0.62
Bill Singer 2.88 2.34 -0.54
Claude Osteen 3.09 2.66 -0.43
Bill Hands 2.89 2.49 -0.4
Mike Cuellar 2.74 2.38 -0.36
Jim McGlothlin 3.54 3.18 -0.36
Juan Marichal 2.43 2.1 -0.33
Mike McCormick 3.58 3.34 -0.24
Dave Boswell 3.32 3.23 -0.09
Fritz Peterson 2.63 2.55 -0.08
Mickey Lolich 3.19 3.14 -0.05
Phil Niekro 2.59 2.56 -0.03
Catfish Hunter 3.35 3.35 0
Joe Coleman 3.27 3.27 0