Most career starts with no relief appearances.
Posted by Andy on February 12, 2008
Do you know who holds the record since 1901?
It's Tommy Glavine.
Here is the full list of most game starts since 1901, led by Nolan Ryan, Don Sutton, and Phil Niekro. You can see their total number of games a few columns over, and the difference tells you how many relief appearances they had. #10 Tom Glavine is the only guy in the top 200 to have zero relief appearances. Five other guys had just one relief appearance. Here they are, along with number of career starts in parentheses: Mike Mussina (502), Frank Viola (420), Steve Trachsel (409), Brad Radke (377), and Livan Hernandez (350.)
I would imagine that there is a different record-holder prior to 1901, when most starts were complete games and teams usually used just 1 pitcher per game.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:24 am
I'm not a PI subscriber, so I can only see the top guy on the list, but Glavine holds the record from 1871-2007, as well. Back then, there were fewer relief appearances, but in tight jams, the team's best pitcher would often be the one to come into the game, so relief appearances by guys who also started a lot of games weren't unusual.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Andy, did you already forget you can run the PI back before 1901? 🙂
Unless he pitches in relief this season, Glavine should hold this record for quite a while. Mussina might have had a chance, until he appeared in relief last season. Now Tim Hudson has the 2nd most starts without a relief appearance, 281, so he's a good 12 full seasons of starts away.
Actually, Andy's theory was not bad. There are 15 pitchers in history with at least 100 starts and 0 relief appearances. Four of them were done by 1887 -- short careers, and in an age of 95% complete games, they never came out of the pen. Ten of them are active. The other is Juan Guzman, last season 2000. Really, the only eras when this was possible were way back when there were hardly any relief appearances at all, and now that there is a strict 5-man starting rotation and a clearly defined bullpen.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Johnny...yeah I did forget again...heh.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Roger Clemens has an odd starter/reliever history... After coming up in 1984 as a starter (started his first 12 games), he pitched two innings of scoreless relief in his 13th appearance.
In 2007 (so far, his final season), he made one somewhat inexplicable relief appearance, and went on to start his final fourteen games.
If my math is right, that gives him 681 consecutive games started without a relief appearance... Is that a record? And if it is -- Glavine will break it in his 13th start this season.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
If my math is correct, that will be the record until Greg Maddux makes his 3rd start this year.
February 12th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
I looked and you can use the pitcher game finder to see how many pitchers started all 100 of their first 100 games, all 200 of their first 200 games, and so on, by doing a search for games in a career, first X amount of games, in the role of a starter. (of course, this is only since 1957)
It's interesting to see who started all 300 of their first 300 games: Glavine, who this post is about, Mussina, who we all know had a relief apperance last year to ruin it, and John Smoltz of all people.
February 12th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Glavine and Smoltz. Ahh, the 1988 Braves:
http://88topps.blogspot.com/2008/02/134-chuck-tanner.html
February 12th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Here's the complete list of players with no relief appearances sorted by games.
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/7G36
February 12th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I looked at that same list, Raphy, but wasn't convinced that it was correct for some reason. I figured there had to be more guys that were higher, and that maybe GR was a stat a while back. But after all the conversation above, I guess I was wrong.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Andy, I was wondering the same thing. However, I think that it is just that since there were few dedicated relievers way back when, every pitcher was a candidate to come in on occasion.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Why is Tom Glavine especially unlikely to be used in relief?
Well, he isn't more effective against LHB. He isn't a fastballer you can send in to strike out one batter. His constant nibbling means he's poorly suited to a situation where there are already runners on base.
Does he also take a long time to warm up? And need more time to recover for his next start?
February 13th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Looking at Glavine's career splits, it looks like it doesn't take more time for him to recover. In fact, it looks like a pamphlet for Leo Mazzone's Rubber Arm theory. On normal 4 days rest: 3.39 ERA with 98 OPS+ for batters faced. On 3 days rest: 3.53 ERA with 100 OPS+, But give him 1 day extra rest, 5 days rest: 3.85 ERA with 106 OPS+. On that note, he has a career OPS+ against of 100 and yet he has 300 wins. Surprising.
February 13th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Regarding #11.
I think its because Glavine was
(1) an elite pitcher
(2) who started off on a putrid team - which had no reason not to start him.
(3) who had a healthy career - and didn't need to rehab.
(4) Glavine also pitched on a very high quality staff. This probably meant that the Braves' bullpen was rarely desperate for a relief inning from a starter.
My guess is that starters of Glavine's ability are not usually used as relievers for strategic reasons, at least not during the regular season. If thats true then the pitcher's skill set shouldn't really matter.
February 13th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
The PI says Glavine had an OPS+ against of 87, which isn't the highest for 300-game winners. Steve Carlton is at 89.
February 13th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Looks like this guy has the most wins for a pitcher with a careeer OPS+ against of 100 or more:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/osteecl01.shtml
Someone verify this, I don't have full PI access.
February 13th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Raphy, I think you are correct for the main reasons Glavine has never relieved. The Braves stank when he came up, so they were willing to let him work out his struggles in the rotation. Since finding himself, he's never been hurt or lost his effectiveness. But I think David has a point why, on those rare occasions these days when a starter might be needed for emergency relief work, Glavine would not be one of the first choices.
But really, regardless of their particular skills, starters almost never relieve these days. The way teams use their staffs now is 98% of the reason why Glavine has never relieved. If he was born 50 years earlier, he definitely would have been used out of the pen on occasion.
February 13th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Vonhayes, because OPS+ is only measurable since 1957, when you talk about 300 game winners, you're only talking about 9 pitchers. Glavine is third in terms of the worst career OPS+
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/WhUq
You are right about Osteen. However, there are a bunch of pitchers with a lot more wins that are between 97 and 99.
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/NTBY
February 16th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Mike Mussina has only had one game in relief -- it came in 2007. September 3, to be exact. (shakes fist in mock anger) Damn you, Joe Torre!
Brad Radke made his MLB debut as a relief pitcher - and then never pitched in relief again. (Total tangent: Greg Maddux's MLB debut came as a pinch runner, a role I don't think he ever played ever again).
Livian Hernandez also made his MLB as a relief pitcher & hasn't done it since then. He could still do it though - he ain't done yet.