Two AL East teams might meet in the World Series
Posted by Andy on October 9, 2011
Who said that the AL East underperformed this season? Two different AL East teams might meet in the 2011 World Series. How is that possible, you say? Especially given that the Yankees and Rays have already been eliminated and two teams from the same division can't meet in the Series anyway?
Well, from 1972 to 1993, the Brewers were in the AL East, and from 1969 to 1997 the Tigers resided in that division as well.
The Brewers switching leagues opens up all kind of unusual possibilities like this, including the '82 World Series rematch in the 2011 NLCS.
(This concept of this post was brought to you by Raphy.)
October 9th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
I noticed that the four remaining teams all play in the same time zone, has that happened often?
October 9th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Detroit is actually in the "east coast" according to time zones...
October 9th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Oh, my bad, just assumed due it's proximity to Indiana.
October 9th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Still same question, has that happend before?
October 9th, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Win an NLCS win the Brewers will become the only team to win both pennants.
October 9th, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Sure...anything that gets the AL East in the conversation has to be considered.
October 9th, 2011 at 3:47 pm
This is a fallacious point. They're not both in the AL East anymore. Isn't there a better way to fill blog space?
October 9th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Why not write about the first (and probably last) time an LCS features a World Series rematch? The Brewers switching leagues creates all kinds of possibilities.
October 9th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Wow, that's really stretching for a headline.
October 9th, 2011 at 4:12 pm
It's known as humor, guys. It may or may not be funny, but it's humor nonetheless.
I have the "Phour Aces" T-shirt...now I want one with Andy, Neil, Raphy and Steve on it!
October 9th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
I loved the headline. Clever way to introduce the point.
I love St Louis, but I also like the Brewers (and rooted for them in the '82 series)... and I would love to see a team be able to claim in huge font on their stadium face "Only Team To Win AL & NL Pennants"... in a strange way, that feels like it puts the Yankees & Red Sox in their place. It's like "HA! Money can't buy you that one!"
October 9th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
For that matter, the Texas Rangers were the Washington Senators who were last in war, last in peace, and last in the AL East from 1969-1971.
And most of Indiana is on Eastern time (except for a few counties around Chicago and Evansville). The counties of Michigan that border Wisconsin are on central time.
October 9th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
@12: Check your reference. The saying actually was "First in war, first in peace, and last in the American League." Much wittier, and it dates back to the original Washington Senators (Minnesota Twins).
October 9th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
@1/3/4: The last time it happened was 1999, east coast: AL: NY/Bos NL: Atl/NY
I didn't see any all west coast or all central time zone final 4s. And since only Colorado and Arizona are in the Mountain, that matchup isn't even possible.
Or this information could be wrong because I missed something...
October 9th, 2011 at 5:24 pm
@12: Clever. Like that one.
October 9th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Headlines that you might see here in the future:
-Little League player makes the Tigers playoff roster
(a former Little League player, now in his late 30s)
-Rookie wins his 3rd MVP
(hey, he was a rookie at one time, right?)
Next Year's World Series to be played in a parking lot
(well, it was a parking lot at one time)
October 9th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
First time we've heard from statboy since his last complaint...
October 9th, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Or, why not right about Tony La Russa mismanaging his pitching staff again? Oy vey.
October 9th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Folks, as someone who is at least as interested in 1970s and 1980s baseball as in the present day, I knew exactly what he meant and had actually been wondering if such an observation would make into public conversation. If you found the headline misleading, you're either quite young or not thinking.
October 9th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Man, some of you people really need to chill.
It was a funny title that also serves as a reminder of baseball's past and the history of both these teams. If your first reaction is anger to humor, we'll you got yourself a problem.
Being an AL fan, and a fan of a current AL East team, I'm rooting for a Tigers/Brewers World Series. Hey, I can't figure out which team to root for right now, so this is as good as anything!
October 9th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
@11 Money can't buy you that one unless you use your money to get elected Commissioner instead of fielding a competitive ball club for about 15 years.
October 9th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
@19: Of course many of us knew what he meant. I didn't think the headline was misleading; I just thought the whole point - and post - was meaningless, especially because it's been so long since the Brewers and Tigers shared a division.
October 9th, 2011 at 6:13 pm
@22 Seems like yesterday to me 🙁
October 9th, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Seems like yesterday to me too.
October 9th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
Seems like yesterday to me as well, but it has been 15 years, long enough IMO to render the point meaningless.
October 9th, 2011 at 7:49 pm
Was I complaining, Andy? #7 and #9 were complaints. I was just making a prediction.
October 9th, 2011 at 8:11 pm
Still waiting for the day when the jays and nats meet up in the WS. It will be a great day in (ex)-Canadian baseball. Now add a Mexican team or 2 Canadian teams and then you could have a WS entirely outside of the US.
October 9th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
Go Seattle Pilots!
October 9th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
Worst thread ever.
October 9th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
@1
1999: Yankees/ Red Sox, Braves/Mets
1997: Indians/Orioles, Marlins/Braves
It didn't occur prior to the 6 division error and was far less probably because of the way divisions were aligned. However it was possible for it to happen in the central time zone: Cards or Cubs; Astros; Milwaukee; Twins, White Sox, Rangers or Royals.
October 9th, 2011 at 10:49 pm
The first-first-last Senators moved to Minnesota and were replaced by the last-last-last Senators, who actually finished last in the division only once, but had multiple 10th-place finishes before divisional play.
October 9th, 2011 at 11:10 pm
@31: And?
October 10th, 2011 at 12:37 am
@21 C'mon! Money was an important part of the Brewers first pennant.
16 HR's and 55 RBI's in part time action.
October 10th, 2011 at 1:51 am
I like this topic.
And I think that people who log in to criticize the topic are rude and thoughtless.
October 10th, 2011 at 1:53 am
@29, JT -- Did you mean to change your name to Comic Book Guy before posting?
October 10th, 2011 at 2:18 am
How many guys played with the AL-champion 1982 Brewers and also played with the Brewers in the NL? I know of one....
October 10th, 2011 at 2:21 am
Although Benito Santiago never played for the Brewers, he's a link between the Brewers of 1982 and the Brewers of 2011. Anyone?
October 10th, 2011 at 4:17 am
@37
Santiago was once a teammate of both Bob McClure (1982) and Zack Greinke (2009) with 2 very bad teams; McClure with the 93 Marlins and Greinke with 05 Royals. I knew Santiago played with Greinke, but John was very sneaky with the McClure reference.
October 10th, 2011 at 4:18 am
@ 39
That's Greinke for 2011, sorry. Man the years are passing me by quick.
October 10th, 2011 at 4:31 am
@38
Correcting myself again, Santiago played on the 04 Royals with Greinke who now pitches with 2011 Brewers. I really should get some sleep.
October 10th, 2011 at 4:56 am
Andy, any chance on posting a followup for the Cards being the only exception of winning the WS in your Matt Moore game 1 post? I'm not criticizing you because sometimes you have to be bold by taking chances with predictions and stick your neck out there when you write, but I wonder where you think they stand now.
Who knew that by July 25th that 2 teams from the NL Central would end up in the NLCS?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/standings.cgi?date=2011-07-25
And "of course" one of the first place teams (Pittsburgh) at that time ended the season 18 games under .500, while the 3rd place team (Milwaukee) finishes 30 over! I can't remember any team ever in first that late in a season and finishing anywhere close to 24 games back. Strange stuff.
October 10th, 2011 at 6:52 am
What are the winning percentages in CS of blue hatted teams vs red hatted teams.
Sorry, seems just as relevant as the misleading headline. Humor? Perhaps. But very lame.
October 10th, 2011 at 8:14 am
Biff, I don't really see what follow-up there is. My original post, which I think you misunderstood then, said that an excellent argument could be made for 7 out of the 8 teams winning the World Series, save the Cardinals. I felt, as did many others, that the Cardinals were significantly outmatched in the DS and it was difficult to make an "excellent argument" for how they would win. But of course, in short series, the lesser team (particular a team that is only a bit the lesser) sometimes outperforms the better team, as was the case in that DS, by a very narrow margin.
Jimbo, this post is not an attempt at humor--it's just a way of pointing out a historical oddity.
October 10th, 2011 at 10:31 am
Here is another worthless headline:
TWO EXPANSION TEAMS FACE OFF IN THE WORLD SERIES
Of course, one team, the Rangers, have been in the majors for 51 years, and the Brewers have been in the majors for 43 years. But it could be the first time that none of the original 16 teams make the World Series.
By the way, the Rangers and the Brewers switched divisions in 1972.
October 10th, 2011 at 11:49 am
ANOTHER WORTHLESS HEADLINE: People fail to realize the point of Andy's headline; chaos ensues
October 10th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
BSK@45,
There could be a separate blog (blog, not blog post) just for that. There could be another blog devoted to people complaining that particular posts on this blog don't reveal a sufficient level of cosmic significance. And lastly there should be an entire blog devoted to reposting "The Phillies are Done" blog post every time the Phillies play their first game of the season, clinch, get eliminated or advance a round in the playoffs - I would definitely be a prime candidate to be a contributor to that one.
Andy, keep up the good work - I find most of the topics you write about interesting and have recently discovered that I'm not required to read or comment about the ones that don't.
October 10th, 2011 at 12:36 pm
even more distant connection - The one team here that wasn't in the AL East, used to share the home city and ballpark with a Team that move to a new town and eventually to the AL East - St Louis Brown->Baltimore Orioles.
October 10th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
Three words for those who do not like this blog subject:
Lighten up, people.
Unrelated thought - in the seventeen years since the wild card has been introduced (1995 - 2011), in only three years has the team with the best record in each league faced each other in the World Series (it will not happen this year):
1995
1997
2007 (tied)
Is there a simple mathematical way of figuring out what the probability of this is? I need to assume that both teams are of equal strength so that they have a 50% chance of winning, so would the chance simply be:
{50%} X {50%} = 25%
If I do not assume that all teams have a 50% chance of winning, it is more realistic, but much more complicated.
October 10th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
I don't really see what the problem with this post is...
Any way one of you blog guys, who knows how to crunch the numbers, could do something on the effectiveness of starting pitchers pitching in relief in the post season? The effects on their next start, if there is one, and how good they might be in their relief appearance?
October 10th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
I started reading Hank Aaron's book, I Had a Hammer the other day and I couldn't put it down, what a fantastic read. It's 20 years old so I guess I should have read it a long time ago. It has to be one of the most honest books I've ever read.
October 10th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
there are a lot of blunt instruments in here...
October 10th, 2011 at 6:52 pm
@48
The 2007 Rockies were 1/2 game behind Arizona after the one-game playoff.
The probability would be 1/4 times 1/4, or 1/16. It has happened once in the last 16 seasons including this one.
October 10th, 2011 at 8:07 pm
#11
Even if the Brewers do manage to win a pennant in each league, it's not going to be as impressive as their record of being the only team to come in last place in four different divisions:
AL West 1969 (as Seattle Pilots), 1971
AL East 1972, 1976, 1984, 1993
AL Central 1994
NL Central 2002, 2003, 2004
October 10th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
@38, Biff nailed my question posed @37 -- how Benito Santiago is a bridge between the '82 and '11 Brewers, having played with Bob McClure and Zack Greinke .
(Extra credit would have been given for noting that McClure got Milwaukee's last win in the LCS prior to Greinke's game-1 win.)
October 10th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
BTW, the player I referenced @36 -- who appeared with the '82 Brewers and also played for the Brewers in the NL -- is reliever Doug Jones.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jonesdo01.shtml
October 10th, 2011 at 10:15 pm
@55 -- Thanks John -- great trivia that didnt go unnoticed or unappreciated
@33 -- Hee hee, nice one! Don was one of the few bright spots on the mid-70s Brewers and one of my early heroes! Even beat out Brett for the All-Star gm one year, drawing angry comments from Brett and boos for him in Milwaukee for awhile: the only bad press i ever remember him getting (cause the pine-tar thing was great).
Anyway, here's another shout-out for Money, who manages the AAA Brewers, by the way, and may be back in the majors sometime soon...
October 11th, 2011 at 10:10 am
Thanks Andy.
I love the observation. Don't let the trolls prevent further similar entries.
One thing I had completely forgotten was that the Tigers were in the AL East in 1995/1996/1997 (after the creation of 3 divisions AND prior to the Devil Rays joining the league, which caused Detroit to move to the AL Central to replace the Brewers).
October 11th, 2011 at 10:17 am
@52/ Brendan -
Thanks, but I was not referring specifically to the 2007 Rockies, I was asking what the odds are that the teams with the best record in each league face each other in the World Series in any particular year.
October 11th, 2011 at 11:20 am
If the Brewers win the NLCS, how about "Ten Years After 116 Wins, Seattle Finally Makes the World Series"?
October 11th, 2011 at 11:54 am
Like Dvd Avins, post #19, I am "at least as interested in 1970s and 1980s baseball as in the present day." And I'm guessing that Jim Slaton and Ben Oglivie (who were once traded for each other) are both rooting for a Tigers-Brewers World Series.
October 11th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
@60, Kahuna -- Geez, you really know how to kick, a Tigers fan when he's down!
Oglivie for Slaton was a bad deal from the get-go, made even worse by the fact that Slaton departed as a free agent after a (deceptive) 17-11 season ... and returned to Milwaukee. That gave Slaton the odd (shall we say, Loftonian?) distinction of a 12-year Brewers career interrupted by a 1-year exile.
BTW ... Thrown in by Milwaukee in that deal (though he never pitched in the majors again) was a guy who might have been a target of the Occupy Wall Street movement: Rich Folkers.
October 11th, 2011 at 9:00 pm
(And I'll guess that Milwaukee fans are especially rooting for a Tigers-Brewers WS right now.)