42 Responses to “Danny Moskos and allowing runs with an ERA of zero”

1. zuke Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 7:47 am

   i would begin with #1 rynie wolters giving up 23 unearned in his only game pitched. looks like that '73 resolutes squad had some defensive issues though. using my own personal formula, i've determined that the 244 errors they committed (in 23 games) qualifies as "bad"

2. Raphy Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 8:21 am

   In a related topic: This season featured 2 pitchers who allowed 0 ER in their first 3 appearances in which they allowed a run. Here are the pitchers since 1919 to have done that:

   Rk		Strk Start	End	Games	W	L	GS	CG	SHO	GF	SV	IP	H	R	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA	HBP	WP	BK	Tm
   1	Pedro Beato	2011-04-07	2011-04-27	3	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	4.0	4	4	0	1	1	0	0.00	0	0	0	NYM
   2	Brad Ziegler	2011-04-01	2011-04-15	3	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	2.0	3	4	0	2	2	0	0.00	0	0	0	OAK
   3	Jim Strickland	1971-06-02	1971-07-08	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	7.1	5	8	0	8	3	1	0.00	1	0	0	MIN
   4	Bobby Burke	1933-04-17	1933-05-16	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	3.0	3	3	0	2	0	0	0.00	0	0	0	WSH
   5	Syl Johnson	1929-04-17	1929-05-19	3	1	0	1	1	0	2	0	15.0	11	5	0	1	3	0	0.00	1	0	0	STL
   6	Dana Fillingim	1920-04-19	1920-05-03	3	1	2	3	3	0	0	0	36.0	27	6	0	6	11	0	0.00	0	0	0	BSN

   Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
   Generated 6/7/2011.
3. Raphy Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 9:13 am

   Since 1919 3 pitchers have finished a day with their season totals at 8 R and 0 ER

   Tim Zachary 1926 through April 15
   Whit Wyatt 1942 through May 3
   Jim Strickland 1977 through July 8

4. Steve Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 9:24 am

   Looks like the phenomenon of better gloves and generous scoring.

5. DaveKingman Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 9:41 am

   Gene Michael. Harrumph.

   A poor man's Cesar Tovar.

6. Tim Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 10:27 am

   I think the name on here to note is Charlie Comiskey the only HOFer on the list, though he isn't there for his pitching. Or his hitting. Or fielding.

7. Skeeb Wilcox Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 11:01 am

   The fact that Frank Kreeger was NINETY NINE FREAKING YEARS OLD should be the top story here...

8. Skeeb Wilcox Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 11:16 am

   Okay, I take it that any early Major Leaguer whose actual birth date is unknown may show up as being "99" no matter what the season.

   Or he's a fan of "Get Smart".

   Or Toto...

9. Johnny Twisto Says:
   June 7th, 2011 at 11:54 am

   Moskos (I thought he was known as Daniel; is this another B-R nickname?) was immediately considered a terrible pick when he went 4th in the 2007 draft, one spot ahead of Matt Wieters. I think the Pirates claimed he would reach the majors quickly, but that didn't happen. Most thought they just wanted to save money on the signing bonus. Anyway, we'll see how he pans out. His minor league record was unimpressive. Good start in the majors, though it's gonna be tough for a reliever to succeed if he doesn't improve on 3 K in 8 IP.

10. Rich Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Know what I think is weird? The Pirates have two players named McCutchen. Searching the name, it seems they're the only two in history, too.

11. Brett Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    @6 - Hilarious, LMAO!!!! @1 - they weren't even last in the league. Somebody kill an animal and make a glove already!!!!

12. LJF Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    @9 JT - I received an email yesterday (prior to the draft) from a friend who is a Pirates fan trumpeting how good Trevor Bauer would be for the Pirates. Of course I had to later remind him it would be difficult to do since the Pirates passed on Buaer in favor of a teammate with an ERA 3 times higher. His response was "The Pirates are the Pirates because they do things like that."

13. OPW Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Maybe I'm just tired and completely missing something, but how exactly did Bob Pettit manage to pitch one inning in one game giving up eight unearned runs...and still get a save? Something's just not adding up there.

14. Andy Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Because it's seasons, not single games. Presumably he didn't give up 8 runs and get a save in the same game.

15. OPW Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    That's what I thought too, but on both this list and his player page it says he only pitched in one game, not only in that season, but for his career.

16. Andy Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    Yeah, good point. I don't know the answer. I would have to think he mopped up a game in which his team had a huge lead, and also gave up some unearned runs.

17. Brett Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:19 pm

    @15 - saves are also awarded to pitchers who finished games and pitched at least three innings - regardless of score or how effectively they pitched. He also led the league in saves!

18. Brett Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Clearly, I'm a bit slow. He tossed just one inning obviously so my theory is out the window.

19. OPW Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    @16 - If that were the case, how would he have qualified for a save if the team had a massive lead? From My understanding, to get a save you need to be up by 3 or fewer runs or enter the game with the tying or go ahead run on deck. Either way, 8 runs makes both of those impossible and @17 - he only pitched one inning, so he wouldn't have qualified for pitching the last 3+ innings either.

20. JoshG Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    I think players got saves if they finish a game that someone else on their team got a win (in 1887 scoring rules). I remember seeing something like that on a difference post here.

21. JoshG Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    Obviously they didn't invent the save until much later but I think that's how it's scored on this site

22. Andy Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Yeah, I know the saves rules for these really old games are not the same as the modern save, and of course didn't exist at all at the time.

23. Doug Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Gene Michael (#15) makes the list as a non-pitcher. Which kind of makes sense, when you think about it, since he likely only had one appearance. Most of these guys are from way back, but any other non-pitchers anyone can spot?

    And, I love to see Wayne Twitchell (#21) on any list. Has to be on an all-name team, don't you think?

24. OPW Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Thanks Josh. I know the save, let alone save rule, didn't exist back then, I just assumed anyone retroactively credited with a save had to qualify under the same guidelines based on old boxscores and whatnot. Thanks for the explanation!

25. Doug Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    @23.

    Looks like Twitchell was living up to his name.

    Committed 4 balks in only 134 innings in 1975. My hunch is that is a high number.

26. Raphy Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Petit wasn't the only one. Here are the pitchers who pitched 1 game of less than 3 innings, allowed at least 3 runs and were credited with a save.

    Rk	Player	R	G	SV	IP	Year	Age	Tm	Lg	GS	CG	SHO	GF	W	L	W-L%	H	ER	BB	SO	ERA	ERA+	HR	BF	AB	2B	3B	IBB	HBP	SH	SF	GDP	SB	CS	PO	BK	WP	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS	OPS+	Pit	Str
    1	Ernie Shore	10	1	1	1.0	1912	21	NYG	NL	0	0	0	1	0	0		8	3	1	1	27.00	18	1	13					0							0	0
    2	Bob Pettit	8	1	1	1.0	1887	25	CHC	NL	0	0	0	1	0	0		3	0	2	0	0.00		1	10					0							0	3
    3	Lew Brown	7	1	1	1.0	1884	26	BOS	UA	0	0	0	1	0	0		6	4	1	0	36.00	13	0	10													0
    4	Jim Devlin	5	1	1	2.0	1886	20	NYG	NL	0	0	0	1	0	0		3	4	4	2	18.00	22	0	16												0	1
    5	Louis Drucke	4	1	1	2.0	1912	23	NYG	NL	0	0	0	1	0	0		5	3	1	0	13.50	31	0	13					0							0	0
    6	Abe Johnson	4	1	1	1.0	1893	99	CHC	NL	0	0	0	1	0	0		2	4	2	0	36.00	18	0	8					1							0	0
    7	Theodore Conover	4	1	1	2.0	1889	21	CIN	AA	0	0	0	1	0	0		4	3	2	1	13.50	35	0	12					0								0
    8	Bill Abernathie	3	1	1	2.0	1952	23	CLE	AL	0	0	0	1	0	0		4	3	1	0	13.50	30	1	10	9	0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	.444	.500	.778	1.278
    9	Henry Fox	3	1	1	1.0	1902	22	PHI	NL	0	0	0	1	0	0		2	2	1	1	18.00	25	0	6					0							0	0
    10	Doc Parker	3	1	1	2.0	1893	21	CHC	NL	0	0	0	1	0	0		5	3	1	0	13.50	42	0	12					0							0	0

    Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
    Generated 6/7/2011.
27. Johnny Twisto Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Pettit (who was mostly an OF) debuted on 9/3/87. The game he pitched was probably either 9/13 or 9/14 vs PHI. CHI won those games 16-13 and 17-12.

    Neil P. posted about the save rules. http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/7371
    It looks like for games prior to 1950, saves are given to any reliever who finished a game his team won.

    This doesn't seem to be the best policy, but I don't know if there is a best policy. How would you retroactively apply the save rule? Which save rule would you use? Suppose the rules for a save change again in the future; do you change all the retroactive saves to comply?

28. Doug Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    @26, 27.

    Or, maybe a bit later than 1950.

    Bill Abernathie (#8 on Ralphy's list) gets a save in 1952 with 3 ER allowed in 2 innings.

29. Raphy Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Save#Earlier_Rules

    The current rule has been in effect since the beginning of the 1975 season. Two earlier versions of the rule awarded saves differently. Starting in 1969, a relief pitcher earned a save when he entered the game with his team in the lead and held the lead for the remainder of the game, provided that he was not credited with the victory. A relief pitcher could not be credited with a save if he did not finish the game unless he was removed for a pinch hitter or a pinch runner. When one or more relief pitchers qualified for a save under the provisions of this rule, the official scorer would credit the save to the pitcher he judged to have been the most effective.

    Before the 1973 season, the save rule was modified and simplified. Under this new rule, a relief pitcher earned a save under one of two conditions:

    He had to enter the game with either the potential tying or winning run either on base or at the plate and preserve the lead; or
    He had to pitch at least three or more effective innings and preserve the lead.

    A pitcher could be credited with the save even if he had not finished the game, provided he had been removed either for a pinch hitter or a pinch runner. When more than one pitcher was in a position to qualify for a save, the official scorer had to judge which of them had been most effective and award the save to him.

    It was possible, under both earlier versions of the save rule, to see boxscores in which pitchers were credited with saves in situations where they would not earn them under the current rule. See for example the game of April 25, 1970, where Claude Raymond entered the game with a four-run lead in the ninth but was awarded a save anyway: [1]. For games played before 1969, saves have been figured retroactively using the current definition, and there is no such discrepancy.

    "For games played before 1969, saves have been figured retroactively using the current definition, and there is no such discrepancy."

    hmmmm

30. Cheese Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    team a 2, team b 5 (home team) in the 7th

    Pitcher B (of team b to keep this easy) comes in in the top of the 7th and gets 3 outs, no runs.

    Team b scores 10 runs in the bottom of the 7th. team a 2, team b 15 (still a save situation)

    Team a scores 8 un-earned runs in the top of the 8th. team a 10, team b 15.

    Neither team scores again and Pitcher B finishes the game.

    Final: Team A 10, Team B 15

    Pitcher B gets the save because he came in after the 5th with a 3 run or less lead. His team never lost the lead and he finished the game. Thus, he gave up 8 un-earned runs and got the save.

31. Cheese Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    oh, he only had 1 inning pitched. nm.

32. Brendan Burke Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    I thought that had been settled. He pitched the ninth with a lead of 9 runs or more, so he didn't give up the lead.

33. jay Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    An odd thing about the Gene Michael game: The Yankees were losing 5-1 going into the seventh when he was brought into the game. Non-pitchers generally pitch in extreme blowouts or in very long extra inning games (like Wilson Valdez in the 19th inning of a Phillies game a couple of weeks ago). Odder still, Rocky Colavito pitched a couple of innings and won the previous day. If you look at the record, the Yankees played double headers on three consecutive days, which may explain why they used non-pitchers in untraditional places. But pitchers were expected to go deep into games in 1968, so a staff could handle such a situation more easily than a team could today. I wonder if the Yankees were going through a rash of pitching injuries going into the string of double headers and in desperation they looked to their position players to fill in.

34. Artie Z Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    @32 - except that it doesn't even look like he pitched the 9th inning. Looking at his HR log (for his pitching), Pettit gave up 1 HR in 1887, the only game in which he pitched. According to the HR log, the game was the one on 9/14 which the White Stockings won 17-12, and the batter was Arthur Irwin, who hit his HR in the top of the 8th inning.

    Before getting into the business of how the save was awarded, my question is: how did someone figure out that Pettit finished this game? I suppose you can pitch the top of the 8th, give up 8 runs, have your team retired in the bottom of the 8th, and then the game gets called and you receive a "game finished". That's the only way it's possible, right?

35. thom-13 Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Apparently, Rynie was better at arguing to stay in the game than Leela was in Blurnsball "But coach, I've got a no-hitter going." (after hitting like 10 batters in a row). Rynie "Coach, I don't trust Len, he'll give me an earned run" Looking at his 1873 season, he has one game played, one game started, one complete game, but zero games finished. How do you pull that off?

36. thom-13 Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    I believe 1887 had a lot of different rules. Strikeouts were considered hits and you got a save if you pitched at least one inning and had less than 5 Earned Runs as long as 10 runs did not score in any inning you actually pitched.

37. Johnny Twisto Says:
    June 7th, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Thom, game finished are a reliever's stat. A CG is not a GF.

38. Detroit Tigers Links: Jhonny Peralta is among baseball’s ‘overachievers’ this … – The Ann Arbor News | Detroit Local Me.me Says:
    June 8th, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    [...] • Relief pitcher Adam Wilk, who has all of 3 2/3 innings under his belt, is one of three pitchers this year to have an ERA of 0.00 and allow at least one unearned run. Impress your coworkers with this information today. [Baseball-Reference] [...]

39. Bob Rodriguez Says:
    June 8th, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    In #36 I think you meant walks were counted as hits, not strikeouts.

40. jason Says:
    June 9th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    @35,

    in 1873 there was only 1 pitcher on the team. it took something incredibly drastic to remove the pitcher. if he only pitched one game either he was the only pitcher they could find and sign for one game, or they considered him so bad they fired him after. also the game could have been thrown. finally errors are safer to assume than HBP. back then the avg fld pct was like 750 for outfielders and less than 900 for infielders. 10 to 15 errors a game was common and only 1/3 of runs were earned for all pitchers in general.

41. jason Says:
    June 9th, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    wolters was not a novelty act either, he was a better than avg pitcher in 71 if i recall correctly.

42. nesnhab Says:
    June 11th, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Does the Earned Run stat still have what I call the "Dirty Harry" angle?

    By that I mean, that a single error that extends an inning make all the subsequent poor performance by the pitchers completely forgivable.

    I call it that because it reminds me of scenes in fact and/or fiction where the judge lets a guilty guy go, no matter what evidence was found against him, because the clerk of the court signed misplaced a punctuation mark in the search warrant.