34 Responses to “Last Season For 400-HR Club Members”

1. Detroit Michael Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 10:04 am

   Reacting just a bit to the last sentence of the post, perhaps a few of these sluggers retired too soon (seemingly involuntarily in Barry Bonds' case).

   I'm surprised that Mickey Mantle is on the list, showing the need to normalize data and not just look at the raw numbers especially when a player is in an unusually extreme runscoring environment. I thought the Mick was so washed up that even Denny McClain took pity on him and grooved a home run pitch (which is true) implying (apparently incorrectly) that he wasn't a productive batter any more.

2. Detroit Michael Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 10:05 am

   Looks like Juan Gonzalez is the member of the 400 home run club who retired at the earliest age. Interesting.

3. Steve Lombardi Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 10:13 am

   For me, it's interesting to see the final teams each player played for...many are not what most remember that player playing for...

   Canseco with the White Sox. Sosa with the Rangers. Mathews with the Tigers. Piazza with the A's. Killebrew with the Royals. Etc.

4. David Huemer Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 11:23 am

   @ #1
   Mantle also leads the list in SB. He had Tom Tresh hitting behind him, and walked 106 times. He was 4th in the AL in WPA, and 9th in adjusted OPS+. Overall, most players not named Mickey Mantle (and without the knees of a 60 year old at 36) would be happy enough with these stats not to retire.

5. Dukeofflatbush Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 11:36 am

   @ David Huemer

   Although you are right about the quality of the Mick's swan song, in an interview I saw recently, filmed a few years before his death, he said that season bringing him below .300 lifetime, was one of his greatest baseball regrets.

6. Dr. Doom Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 11:53 am

   Because this seems as good a thread to mention it on as any, RIP Harmon Killebrew.

   I shared this on The Hardball Times on Saturday, but I hope you’ll indulge me sharing a memory of Harmon.

   My wife and I attended a (free) speaking engagement he gave in a local Catholic church last year in St. Peter, MN, with about 300 people in the audience. He was slated to talk for an hour, so, of course, he went about 15 minutes over. Then, he signed autographs for the next hour and a half. This is not because people were bringing too much stuff (there was a limit of one item per person), but because he insisted on talking to everyone and asking about their personal lives. My wife and I each had something - a “Twins Fan Parking Only” sign for ourselves (my wife is a Twins fan, I a Brewers fan), and a Twins pennant for her dad - a baby-boomer Twins fan. I really wanted something for my dad, and as we were among the last in line, I called him on the phone. When we got to the front of the line, I asked if Harmon wouldn’t mind saying “hello.” I told him he absolutely could decline, but he thought it would be fun. I hadn’t told my dad who it was, merely that someone famous wanted to talk to him. I’ll never forget Harmon saying, “Hi, Bob! This is Harmon Killebrew.” It was a great moment, and even the people around us in line laughed. The man just exuded joy, and it is too, too bad he has to go. He will be sorely missed. And in our household, he will always be remembered for his kindness.

7. Atom Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 11:54 am

   Haven't looked it up, but I theorize McGwire may have the largest home runs to double ratio of anyone every in 2001 (29HR, 4 doubles).

8. Pat D Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 11:57 am

   R.I.P. Harmon Killebrew.

9. StephenH Says:
   May 17th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

   Dr. Doom,

   Thanks for sharing.

10. Andy Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Man. Ted Williams is somehow underrated, I think.

11. Brendan Burke Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    7 players on this list (excluding Manny) are still active.

12. BSK Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Yea, Andy, when I saw that this list included all players with 400+ HRs (at first I thought it might just be 400-499), I immediately assumed Bonds must have had the best final season. Nope. Teddy Ballgame. And it wasn't even close. I knew he had a great year at the end, but I thought it was considered that because of his age and the struggles he had the previous year. I didn't know it was simply a great year in any context.

13. BSK Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    By the way, how absurd is it that the guy with the most all-time HRs and one of the best "final years" of elite players in history NOT get a job offer? It'd be one thing if he was the all-time leader but was clearly washed up. OR if he had a great year at 41 but no track record to back it up. But this guy had 760+ HRs AND a stellar season and STILL no one would sign him. Gross!

14. John Autin Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    @13, BSK -- And more baggage than the Q.E.II:
    -- Brutal defender. It's pretty hard to rack up -1.1 WAR in LF. Yes, there is a thing called DH. But ...
    -- Extremely difficult personality.
    -- Unpopular with the majority of fans in every MLB city outside SF.

    Absolutely, Bonds could still hit. But is that all there is? If you're a GM, what do you say at the press conference announcing that you've signed Barry Bonds? Do you deny that he's an egotistical jerk? Do you address your fan base and say, "I know you hate him, but he's going to help us win. Just ignore his public remarks."

    No, I was not surprised when Bonds finally could not get a job. He had painted himself into the SF corner. Once they were done with him, he was done.

15. Jaxx Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    @13
    @14

    Or Bud just said, let him fade away before the courts rule...

16. BSK Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    JA-

    I would agree with you if we haven't seen pariah after pariah get a second chance. Ray Lewis spent time in jail for his involvement in a murder (I realize most sound evidence points to him simply being aware of it and not actually directly invovled, but still); Kobe Bryant was accused of rape and received police escorts so he could get to and from court and the court; Brett Favre... well, ugh... Brett Favre.

    I just can't help but think that there was something else at play, somewhere along the lines of what Jaxx suggests. I realize that Bonds was not still playing at an MVP caliber, but he was still a useful player. And looking at the dollars that teams have thrown away on other, far more useless players, it is hard to take your first explanation as legitimate.

    The only other explanation would be if Bonds' contract demands were outsized (certainly a possibility). It just seems bizarre that a guy who could still CLEARLY help a team on the field wouldn't even get an offer. Yes, I know the baggage he came with, but other players have come with far greater baggage, as far as I'm concerned.

17. WanderingWinder Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Also consider how much time Williams lost to war. I do believe he is the best hitter of all time (though it's very, very close with Babe Ruth; nobody else is even in the ballpark when you look at their careers overall - Bonds circa 2001-2004 blows them out of the water, it's true, but...)

18. Richard Chester Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    @3

    Jimmie Foxx finished with the Phillies in 1945 (or maybe it was the Blue Jays at the time) and also pitched 22.2 innings for them. He was 1-0 with an ERA of 1.59 and an ERA+ of 243.

19. Last Season For 400-HR Club Members » Stathead » Blog Archive Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    [...] Last Season For 400-HR Club Members: Data from B-R’s Steve Lombardi… Some 400-HR members went out with a bang, some with a whimper. [...]

20. Biff Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 6:09 pm

    @7

    Definitely strange stuff. McGwire and Kingman both have hit at least 30 homers and less than 10 doubles in the same season. Kingman led the league in homers the year he did it. I'm not certain if any other player has done that.

21. Biff Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    ....30 or more homers and less than 10 doubles in the same season, that is.

22. Richard Chester Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    @21

    Gus Zernial had 30 homers and 9 doubles in 1955.

23. Baseball In Depth Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    It's hard to get a good read on many of them, if they only played in 20 or 30 games (or only 1 like Gonzalez). It is interesting that Kingman and Mantle are the only ones that played in more than 130 games in the final season. Kingman only hit .210, but that wasn't that unusual for him.

    Apparently, he tried to come back the next year with the Giants, but he retired after struggling in the minors. Still, he went out on a relative high note compared to a lot of these guys.

    I hope we never see Albert Pujols look like Griffey did in 2010, hopefully he'll walk away before it gets to that.

24. flyingelbowsmash Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    As to Bond's contract demands for that last season that didn't happen, I remember him saying he would take the league minimum and donate it all to charity - tickets for inner-city kids I think. At the time, I was surprised the Yanks didn't pick him up to DH, imagine that line up. . .

25. SocraticGadfly Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    @BSK Maybe Barry thought he would be washed up in 2008 if caught using. And, he would have been. Picture a Bonds at .255BA, . 410 slugging. That doesn't guarantee you an everyday DH slot, even.

26. Steve Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    As far as Mickey,I remember it quite clearly from his book.He was crushed to hit .237 and have his career average drop under .300.He was an old timer who put a lot of stock in batting average!I understand where he is coming from,it annoyed me that Patrick Ewing dropped down to 9.8 rebounds per game for his career thanks to his final season.

27. Neil L. Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    @10
    Andy, how does the list underrate, Ted Williams? Not following you.

    @20-22
    Gotta have an uppercut swing to hit that many HR and so few doubles!

    @25 @26
    Gadfly & Steve, how do you know when to walk away from the only thing you know and love, whether in sports or in private life? (I could have retired two years ago from my job with full pension!)

28. Daniel F Says:
    May 17th, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    So, Dave Kingman. He hit the most HR in his last season on this list. What a strange hitter that guy was. Nothing but brute. I wonder if any other players (as in someone with less than 400 career HR) has had more than 35 HR in his last season.

29. John Autin Says:
    May 18th, 2011 at 12:04 am

    But BSK -- Ray Lewis, from what I read, was the most important player on his team. Ditto Kobe, obviously. And Favre was up near that level.

    Barry, though still an outstanding hitter, was not at that level of total value. And he was going to be 43 years old.

    And more importantly, he was looking for a new team. Those guys you mentioned were all staying with the team they had been with.

    I'm curious: What sort of reception do you think Barry Bonds would have gotten from the home fans if he had signed with, say, the Yankees?

30. BSK Says:
    May 18th, 2011 at 12:23 am

    JA-

    What about Ron Artest? Dude punched a fan in the face (among other things).

    I suppose you are right that Bonds generated more vitriol then most of these guys. Facts are facts. The question is, did he deserve it? Probably not. So while teams may have been correct in calculating that fan backlash might have outweighed any benefit Bonds brought to the field (which likely would have been sizable, especially in the AL), the fact remains that the entire Bonds saga was absurd. We embrace rapists, criminals, and folks prone to violence. Yet Bonds can't get a second chance? Blame the media, blame the fans, blame baseball, blame Bonds himself... regardless, the saga is absurd.

31. BSK Says:
    May 18th, 2011 at 12:27 am

    Sorry, I don't mean to rant on all these guys. Generally speaking, I hate the general inability of folks to have nuanced understandings of people. We want good guys and bad guys and if we need to twist the facts to fit someone into a neat little box, we are happy to do so. Bonds was a jerk and I have no doubt he knowingly took steroids. Do we really think he was the only player in MLB guilty of those two things? Believe me, I am no Bonds fan. I just think the man got a bum rap when it came to continuing his career, especially if what was posted above (that he was willing to play for the minimum and donate it to charity) is true.

32. Doug Says:
    May 18th, 2011 at 12:29 am

    @4 @5 and Mantle's regret at playing one more year.

    There aren't many guys who would regret a 142 OPS+ season - at any point in their career. But, there aren't many Mantles, either.

    That 142 OPS+ shows how far removed 1968 is from today. Sorted by OPS, Mantle ranks only 10th on this list. But, sort by OPS+ and he's tied for third with Delgado's 2009 season.

33. Taco Says:
    May 18th, 2011 at 1:14 am

    yeah, I don't know if it is a good or bad reflection overall when a guy in his last year has an OPS+ that high. Another interesting wrinkle to the Year of the Pitcher.

    I thought Kirkjian did a decent job detailing the '68 season:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=kurkjian_tim&id=6534824

34. Gerry Says:
    May 18th, 2011 at 1:58 am

    Back in 1968, there was general agreement that Mantle was toast. We didn't know about OBP, we didn't know how to adjust for the general drop in offense, we just "knew" that a 1st baseman hitting .237 with only 18 HR and 54 RBI couldn't possibly be much good.

    But even if we had known then what we know now, and even if we had known offense would jump in 1969, Mantle was playing through so much pain, he might've hung 'em up anyway.