Non-Pitchers Younger Than 22 To Bat In All-Star Game
Posted by Steve Lombardi on March 4, 2011
How many players under the age of 22 - excluding pitchers - have come to bat in an All-Star Game?
It's a small club. Here's the list -
Rk | Player | Age | Date | Tm | Lg | Opp | Rslt | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | ROE | GDP | SB | CS | WPA | RE24 | BOP | Pos. Summary | |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Butch Wynegar | 20.121 | 1976-07-13 | MIN | AL | NLS | L 1-7 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.012 | 0.119 | .290 | 7 | PH |
2 | Al Kaline | 20.205 | 1955-07-12 | DET | AL | NLS | L 5-6 | 6 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.035 | 0.765 | .962 | 6 | RF |
3 | Ivan Rodriguez | 20.230 | 1992-07-14 | TEX | AL | NLS | W 13-6 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | -0.434 | .000 | 7 | C |
4 | Ken Griffey | 20.231 | 1990-07-10 | SEA | AL | NLS | W 2-0 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.025 | -0.233 | 1.567 | 5 | CF |
5 | Frank Robinson | 20.314 | 1956-07-10 | CIN | NL | ALS | W 7-3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.038 | -0.391 | .710 | 2 | LF |
6 | Claudell Washington | 20.318 | 1975-07-15 | OAK | AL | NLS | L 3-6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | -0.020 | -0.061 | 1.323 | 3 | PR CF LF |
7 | Alex Rodriguez | 20.348 | 1996-07-09 | SEA | AL | NLS | L 0-6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.002 | -0.109 | .060 | 8 | PH SS |
8 | Del Ennis | 21.031 | 1946-07-09 | PHI | NL | ALS | L 0-12 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.004 | -0.374 | .075 | 2 | PH LF |
9 | Carlos May | 21.067 | 1969-07-23 | CHW | AL | NLS | L 3-9 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | -0.087 | .000 | 8 | PH |
10 | Miguel Cabrera | 21.086 | 2004-07-13 | FLA | NL | ALS | L 4-9 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.022 | -0.281 | .420 | 5 | RF |
11 | Richie Ashburn | 21.116 | 1948-07-13 | PHI | NL | ALS | L 2-5 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0.005 | 0.113 | 1.350 | 1 | CF |
12 | Garry Templeton | 21.117 | 1977-07-19 | STL | NL | ALS | W 7-5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.061 | 1.116 | .675 | 3 | SS |
13 | Butch Wynegar | 21.127 | 1977-07-19 | MIN | AL | NLS | L 5-7 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | -0.011 | -0.529 | 1.325 | 7 | C |
14 | Willard Marshall | 21.148 | 1942-07-06 | NYG | NL | ALS | L 1-3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.027 | -0.265 | 1.190 | 9 | PH |
15 | Cesar Cedeno | 21.151 | 1972-07-25 | HOU | NL | ALS | W 4-3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.075 | -0.225 | 2.140 | 2 | CF |
16 | Hank Aaron | 21.157 | 1955-07-12 | MLN | NL | ALS | W 6-5 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.464 | 2.216 | 1.610 | 6 | PR RF |
17 | Albert Pujols | 21.175 | 2001-07-10 | STL | NL | ALS | L 1-4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.012 | 0.128 | .330 | 6 | 2B 3B |
18 | Rickey Henderson | 21.196 | 1980-07-08 | OAK | AL | NLS | L 2-4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.034 | -0.211 | 1.390 | 6 | LF |
19 | Al Kaline | 21.204 | 1956-07-10 | DET | AL | NLS | L 3-7 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.032 | 0.021 | 1.623 | 6 | RF |
20 | Joe DiMaggio | 21.225 | 1936-07-07 | NYY | AL | NLS | L 3-4 | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | -0.350 | -2.118 | 2.516 | 3 | RF |
21 | Ivan Rodriguez | 21.228 | 1993-07-13 | TEX | AL | NLS | W 9-3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.053 | 0.384 | 1.030 | 9 | C |
22 | Johnny Bench | 21.228 | 1969-07-23 | CIN | NL | ALS | W 9-3 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.179 | 2.285 | .472 | 7 | C |
23 | Ken Griffey | 21.230 | 1991-07-09 | SEA | AL | NLS | W 4-2 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.017 | 0.227 | .587 | 7 | CF |
24 | Mickey Mantle | 21.267 | 1953-07-14 | NYY | AL | NLS | L 1-5 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.063 | -0.495 | 1.260 | 4 | CF |
25 | Eddie Mathews | 21.274 | 1953-07-14 | MLN | NL | ALS | W 5-1 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | -0.061 | -1.440 | .703 | 6 | 3B |
26 | Rod Carew | 21.283 | 1967-07-11 | MIN | AL | NLS | L 1-2 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.063 | -0.434 | .910 | 2 | 2B |
27 | Orlando Cepeda | 21.293 | 1959-07-07 | SFG | NL | ALS | W 5-4 | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | -0.198 | -1.750 | 1.327 | 6 | 1B |
28 | Bill Mazeroski | 21.306 | 1958-07-08 | PIT | NL | ALS | L 3-4 | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | -0.193 | -1.685 | 1.578 | 7 | 2B |
29 | Frank Robinson | 21.312 | 1957-07-09 | CIN | NL | ALS | L 5-6 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.042 | 0.280 | .835 | 6 | LF |
30 | Ted Williams | 21.314 | 1940-07-09 | BOS | AL | NLS | L 0-4 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.005 | 0.039 | .453 | 2 | LF |
31 | Elvis Andrus | 21.321 | 2010-07-13 | TEX | AL | NLS | L 1-3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | -0.087 | -0.706 | 1.550 | 2 | PR SS |
32 | Justin Upton | 21.323 | 2009-07-14 | ARI | NL | ALS | L 3-4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.105 | -0.335 | 2.065 | 4 | PH LF |
33 | Buddy Lewis | 21.330 | 1938-07-06 | WSH | AL | NLS | L 1-4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.040 | -0.350 | 1.760 | 8 | 3B |
34 | Buddy Bell | 21.331 | 1973-07-24 | CLE | AL | NLS | L 1-7 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.110 | 0.923 | 1.080 | 9 | PH |
35 | Edgar Renteria | 21.334 | 1998-07-07 | FLA | NL | ALS | L 8-13 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.060 | 0.624 | 1.360 | 8 | SS |
36 | Vada Pinson | 21.335 | 1960-07-11 | CIN | NL | ALS | W 5-3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.007 | -0.231 | .280 | 1 | CF |
37 | Vada Pinson | 21.337 | 1960-07-13 | CIN | NL | ALS | W 6-0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.109 | .000 | 1 | CF |
38 | Alex Rodriguez | 21.346 | 1997-07-08 | SEA | AL | NLS | W 3-1 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.054 | -0.588 | .917 | 2 | SS |
.
I wonder if anyone will ever break Butch's "record" here? Boy, no pun intended, it must be a thrill to be barely 20-years old (or 21 for that matter) and batting in a Major League All-Star Game, huh?
March 4th, 2011 at 12:41 pm
It's interesting which players have accomplished this in two All-Star games:
Kaline - '55, '56
Frank Robinson - '56, '57
Wynegar - '76, '77
Griffey, Jr - '90, '91
Pudge Rodriguez - '92, '93
A-Rod - '96, '97
Five current or future Hall of Famers, and Butch Wynegar
March 4th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
And even crazier about Wynegar...he played in 2 All-Star games before he turned 22...then had 10 more big league seasons, and never played in another.
March 4th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@2 - How about Vada Pinson? He played 18 seasons and his only All-Star games were under 22. Marginal HOF candidate as well...
March 4th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
@1, Andrew -- Add Vada Pinson to the list of those who batted in 2 All-Star games before age 22.
In one sense, there's a technicality -- both of his A-S games were in 1960. (Two games were played from 1959-62.) However, Pinson was also named an All-Star in 1959, at the age of 20; he just didn't happen to bat in the games. (Starting OFs Aaron, Mays and Wally Moon played all of both games; Pinson appeared as a pinch-runner in one game.)
Oddly, Pinson never made another All-Star team, although he had several more good years. His most deserving years were:
-- 1961: Pinson hit .343 (2nd in the NL), won a Gold Glove, led the league with 208 hits, and slugged .504, and was 3rd in the MVP vote. The NL was loaded with star OFs that year; 3 HOFers started (Mays, Clemente, Cepeda), with 3 more on the bench (Aaron, Musial, Robinson).
-- 1963: Hit .313-22-106 with 27 SB, led the NL with 204 hits and 14 triples, and was 3rd in total bases and extra-base hits. The All-Star OFs were Mays, Aaron, Tommy Davis (en route to his 2nd straight batting title), backed up by Musial, Clemente, McCovey, and Duke Snider (the Mets' pro forma representative). Pinson was all over the leaderboard that year.
March 4th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Through age 28, Vada Pinson ranks 3rd in MLB history in Hits, 8th in Total Bases. He collected his 2,000th Hit and 1,000th Run in his age-30 season. Even through age 31, he ranks 8th all-time in Hits, 14th in Total Bases. With a normal decline phase, he would have cruised to 3,000 hits and HOF induction....
March 4th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Vada Pinson after age 30 had only two season with 0.5 or more WAR. He really did fall off a cliff.
March 4th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
If we had to make a "suddenly fell off a cliff" team, where a guy right around age thirty basically avoids the decline phase of his career and goes straight to being basically valueless, who would be on it? Pinson, obviously. Dale Murphy comes to mind, as well. Anyone else have any thoughts?
March 4th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Wynegar is an interesting case. I remember there ebing a lot of buzz about him - 20 year old C who hit for a high BA was a hot commodity in those days. But I wondered why he made the AS team in '76 and '77. He wasn't their only representative either year (joined by Carew in 76 and 77 and Larry Hisle in 77).
After a slow start to his rookie year, Wynegar had an OPS+ of 150 for May-July. And +87 the rest of the year (including a miserable +35 in August). In 1977, he did the same - OPS+ of 139 in April, 123 in May, slide to 49 in June, back to 124 in July before finishing the year at 92 and 71 for the final two months.
Checking his career splits, it seems to be a trend with him. His career OPS in the first half is +114, second half is +80.
March 4th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
"Falling off a Cliff" team: I was thinking of Garry Templeton, but his decline was more gradual, and started around age twenty-five. Ted Kluzewski and Roger Maris are two candidates for the cliff-fallers.
March 4th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
#7 Dr Doom. Cesar Cedeno comes to mind for me. Through age 29, 1576 H, 324 D, 158 HR (plaging in the Astrodome), 475 SB 130 OPS+ and 49 WAR. After that, 511 H, 112 D, 41 HR, 75 SB an OPS + of 103 and 3.2 WAR. And half of that WAR came in 82 PA's for the Cardinals in late 1985.
In late August, Jack Clark sustained a rib cage injury. At that time he was a viable MVP candidate and the Cards were in a dogfight with the Mets - the race was withina game. I'm not sure, but the injury seems to have taken place sometime around the 23rd. On the 29th, STL acquired Cedeno from the Reds. where he had amassed (if you can call it that) an OPS of .644 in 245 PA's that year. In the final month, in those 82 PA's with the Cards, Cedeno had an OPS of 1.213 (+235) and slugged .750. The Cardinals went 24-12 in Sept.Oct wiht Clark getting 31 PA's and they wond the division, the pennant and, eventually lost the WS (can you say Don Denkinger?). Clark returned to play regularly in the postseason, but Cedeno played OF, PH, etc., but went only 4 for 27. He signed with the Dodgers in the offseason, and was finsihed after hitting .231 in less than 100 AB's
March 4th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
...and Greg Jefferies.
March 4th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
@Dr. Doom: Howard Johnson can play third base. 125 OPS+ from 21-30 (and 134 from 25-30), then 88 OPS+ from 31 to a merciful end at 34. Seriously, the guy rang up a .211/.323./405 playing in Coors Field three years after leading the NL in homers.
Bobby Higginson for the outfield? He tailed off over two years, though. Maybe Steve Kemp instead. Von Hayes could qualify.
Hal Trosky is an interesting case. OPS+ of 135 up to age 28 when he left for WWII and then only 97 in his age 31-33 seasons after he came back.
Love what you're doing with the Latverian League, BTW.
March 4th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
I hate to continue the trend of picking on Mets - but Darryl Strawberry definitely fits the category: Age 21-29 (144 OPS+). Age 30+ (111 OPS+ in VERY limited duty). I know 111 OPS+ is not "worthless", but considering where Darryl was at age 29, it is a steep decline.
March 4th, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Jim Rice had a 5.9 WAR in '86, then -.7 the rest of his career, so he definitely fell off of a cliff. Though one could argue that '86 was a fluke during his decline phase, since he wasn't especially great in 84/85.
@#12: Howard Johnson was the other guy who popped into my head, good call on that one.
If HoJo can't hang defensively, Tim Wallach should get a look at 3B. Fantastic player up through 1990, averaging at WAR of at least the high 3's every year. He had something of a rebound in 1994, but other than that he was below a .6 WAR every year from '91 through the end of his career.
March 4th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
@12, Paul Drye - RE: Hal Trosky - I had always assumed Trosky went to war as well but apparently he developed severe migraines in the late 30's and in fact was declined by the armed forces. It also forced him to quit baseball as well. To me, Trosky is one of the forgotten great players because of his shortened career. He's one of the few players to hit 40 HR at age 25 or younger. . . .
March 4th, 2011 at 5:06 pm
How about Cal Ripken? After his MVP year in 1991 at age 30, Cal was really never more than an average hitter after that (except for his last hurrah year in 1999 but that was a short year for him).
Of course, he was still a good fielding shortstop and a good fielding shortstop who is average with the bat is still a good player, but in one year he went from perennial MVP candidate to slightly above average. . . . .
March 4th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Robbie Alomar can play second. 150 OPS+ at age 33, 89 OPS at age 34. (And yes, that was for the Mets).
March 4th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
@17, Solace -- Doesn't Alomar have to compete with Carlos Baerga and Kaz Matsui in the "Mets 2B Cliff Dive Finals"?
March 4th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Something seems off with the ages. Arod was much closer to 22 than 21.346 when he batted in the all star game in 1997 on July 8. He was born on July 27.
March 4th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
@19, Joseph - I believe the number after the decimal is days, not decimal places. Confusing but adds up with the other players
March 4th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Also, I think it would a great new thread to have a discussion about an all "falling off the cliff at 30 players."
I nominate Mattingly for first base. He fell off the cliff at 29, but I think that is close enough. 138 OPS + and 30 WAR before 30. 103 OPS+ and 6 WAR after. Ouch.
March 4th, 2011 at 5:38 pm
@Anon 20: Thanks, that clears it up for me.
March 4th, 2011 at 5:46 pm
@John Autin: Baerga doesn't qualify because he was done at 27. Crazy. Makes me wonder if that wasn't a "Dominican Age".
@Joseph: Mattingly was still a useful player after his cliff dive. Even in his last season he was OPS+ 97 and his WAR was below replacement for the first time since his rookie season.
@Solace: Alomar's an excellent choice, if a little old for the premise.
March 4th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
@ John Austin #4
No kidding, I believe I may have read in the BJHBA that Pinson had a bogus birth certifricate. Supposedly, this was encouraged by a West Coast scout - he attended McClymonds HS in Oakland....probably born two years earlier. Bill Russell (the Celtic) and Frank Robinson (the RF) also attended McClymonds
March 4th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
Larry Parrish can play 3rd for the "Cliff" team.
Close to a career-best year and an All-Star selection at 33. Gone following the next year.
March 4th, 2011 at 9:13 pm
Looks like Johnny Bench in '69 had the best game among the young all-stars. Sort of a sneak preview on a national stage for his absolute monster year in 1970.
March 4th, 2011 at 10:13 pm
At age 32.336 Jimmy Foxx hit his 500th home run. From that point on he managed only 34 more.
March 4th, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Done by 30? How about Glenn Davis at 1B?
March 4th, 2011 at 11:59 pm
@24, Paul E -- You're right about BJHBA claiming that Pinson was actually 2 years older than his listed age. B-R Bullpen reports that there is some question about it, but takes no sides. I couldn't find a definitive source in a quick search. I'm pretty sure Pinson himself never admitted fudging it.
But even if he was 2 years older than listed, I don't that totally explains his decline. His last big year was 1965, listed age 26; make him 28 and he still shouldn't be past his prime.
But maybe I've made too much of his "decline." Pinson did put up big counting numbers in his first 5 full years, but some of that was due to a friendly home park and tons of PAs. His combined OPS+ for those 5 years was 126 -- good, but nothing like, say, Fred Lynn (141). Pinson's OPS+ for his next 7 years was 103, so it wasn't really the sort of cliff-dive I implied. He was still a decent big-leaguer at age 35 (or 37).
Final thought: Maybe it's just coincidence, but Pinson's big years ended when Frank Robinson was traded.
March 5th, 2011 at 1:01 am
Not to be too obvious, but Andruw Jones has to make the All-30-And-Done squad:
Age 29 OPS .894
Age 30 OPS .724
Age 31 OPS .505
That is a steep, steep cliff.
March 5th, 2011 at 1:02 am
And I know, he's done better in '09 & '10 in limited play. But he is a shadow of what he was.
March 5th, 2011 at 5:41 am
@ 30, 31- I attribute his decline (look at the time frame) to the crackdown, on PED's.....30-31 years old, is where the decline generally begins, for a player, gradually. Except, that Andruws' HR's went up by 22(??) from 27 to 28yrs old.....and down by 48(!) from 28 yrs old, to 31 yrs old, in 2008, around when the crackdown began, in earnest.
Quite a severe decline.....
March 5th, 2011 at 10:18 am
The 30 and done club is a great idea. How about Nomar Garciaparra (minus his one season in L.A.)?
March 5th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Strawberry & George Bell
March 5th, 2011 at 11:02 am
First, let me say that I agree with Joseph @21, and I think this would be a great thread on its own. But then again, I was the one who suggested it, so that should probably be taken with more than just a grain of salt. 😉 Obviously, some people were more strict on the "age 30" requirement than others, so some of these guys had epic falls around age 33 or 34. But regardless, it's been a pretty fun discussion. So far, the "Off a Cliff All-Stars" nominees are:
Vada Pinson
Dale Murphy
Cesar Cedeno
Gregg Jeffries
Howard Johnson
Darryl Strawberry
Jim Rice
Tim Wallach
Hal Trosky
Cal Ripken, Jr.
Roberto Alomar
Don Mattingly
Larry Parrish
Jimmie Foxx
Glenn Davis
Andruw Jones
Nomar Garciaparra
Can anyone think of any pitchers? I surprised we've had so few nominees at that position. And there've *got* to be more catchers out there than we've been mentioning, right? I thought of Dave Nilsson, but that's a little unfair, because he voluntarily retired.
March 5th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Ken Griffey Jr.
Hate to say it but his last 10 years in baseball were virtually a waste
March 5th, 2011 at 11:18 am
Pitchers - Catfish Hunter had his last good season at 29, Andy MEssersmith at 30, Sam McDowell at 28
The problem with pitchers is that 90% of the guys who fell apart did so because of injuries not just general decline in ability. . . . .
March 5th, 2011 at 11:20 am
Robin Roberts really was never quite the same after age 28 although his last few years were OK
March 5th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Jim Abbott's career took a fast dive with his 2-18, 7.48 ERA 1996 season in Anaheim. He came back to the bigs in late 1998 but had a terrible 1999 and was done before turning 32.
March 5th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
@1 and back on topic (not that a "cliff" team isn't an interesting idea), Claudell Washington is the only player to bat in an All-Star game at age 20, but not at age 21.
March 5th, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Danny Tartabull nosedived after 30 but he did have one season of 100+ RBIs.
March 5th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
All hail, Claudell! Still the only modern player age 20 or under with 10+ HRs and more than 21 SB; he had 10 HRs and 40 SB.
I wonder if any other player was ever traded for the fathers of two future MVP winners: In 1978, Texas sent Claudell and Rusty Torres to the White Sox for Bobby Bonds; in '86, Atlanta dealt him and Paul Zuvella to the Yankees for Ken Griffey, Sr. and Andre Robertson.
Still the only "Claudell" ever to play in the majors.
March 6th, 2011 at 12:06 am
Pitchers falling off cliffs; Don Drysdale in 1968 had an ERA+ of 128 in 239 innings, and set a record for consecutive scoreless innings. In 1969 he pitched 62+ poor innings and was done. He was 32.
March 6th, 2011 at 8:24 am
Imagine you are Johnny Bench and you are only 21 years old, and you hit a home run in an All-Star game.... how bright does the future look to a player like that?
March 6th, 2011 at 10:17 am
@37: You are correct about injuries. You may/may not want to include: Storm Davis, Chan Ho Park, Bob Stanley, Scott Erickson, and Don Newcome.
March 6th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Larry Parrish and Tim Wallach.
Was it something about the carpet, er ... fuzzy concrete, at Olympic Stadium?
March 7th, 2011 at 12:51 am
@40 and @42.
Claudell's cliff credentials are pretty good.
For ages 20-25, his most similar player match was Roberto Clemente. For ages 30-35 (and for his career), he moved down in class for similarity scores to Jose Cardenal.
March 7th, 2011 at 9:39 am
Robby Thompson took a pretty major cliff dive, but he waited until age 31.
Tommy Herr would be a contender, though he does have an outlier season at age 33.
Possible that Derek Bell might make this list as well.
March 7th, 2011 at 9:53 am
Pitchers: Jim O'Toole and Jim Maloney of 1960's era Reds teams. And Sandy Koufax, who won only 27 games after he turned 30.