18 Responses to “Seasons Of 60+ RE24 Age 26 Or Younger”

1. NYF Says:
   November 22nd, 2010 at 6:31 pm

   Seasons of 60+ RE24 Age 26 Or Younger?

   Now there's a headline for your front page that will drive away your audience!

2. Gerry Says:
   November 22nd, 2010 at 7:11 pm

   Didn't drive me away, but I reckon there's some qualifier missing, something like "since 1946," as I find it hard to believe that Ruth, Cobb, Williams, Hornsby, etc., etc. never reached this level.

3. vincent Says:
   November 22nd, 2010 at 7:11 pm

   Ted Williams doesnt make this list? Not even for 1941?

4. Raphy Says:
   November 22nd, 2010 at 7:46 pm

   RE24 and all WPA numbers are dependent on play-by-play and therefore not available before 1950. They are probably not 100% accurate pre-1974 either. (since there are some missing play-by-play games)

5. MikeD Says:
   November 22nd, 2010 at 9:08 pm

   @2, Gerry, my guess is @1 wasn't being totally serious, yet it is a geeky headline considering B-R draws everyone from the heavy saber types to the more casual fan. A bit of narrative up front certainly wouldn't hurt!

6. Frank Clingenpeel Says:
   November 22nd, 2010 at 9:40 pm

   This I find to be a quite appropriate title -- this coming from a Redlegs fan from before the war {Schnoz Lombardi, Bucky Walters and Joe Beggs were my first heroes as a kid} who "predicted" that Votto wouldn't nail down the MVP vote this year.

   Can we get back to the "Phillies are done" thing, and forget that I said Pujuls would take the MVP?

7. Dr. Doom Says:
   November 23rd, 2010 at 12:49 am

   Would anyone have predicted that, since 1950, the best back-to-back age 25 and 26 seasons as measured by REW were by Mickey Mantle, and second place belonged to...
   ...
   ...
   Lance Berkman?!?!?!?
   I'm not saying Berkman's not a great player, but this was a bit of a shock to me. That's what I love about looking at stuff like this, though - there's always something to learn.

8. Dr. Doom Says:
   November 23rd, 2010 at 12:52 am

   Whoops. Meant RE24, not REW above. Sorry.

9. Tmckelv Says:
   November 23rd, 2010 at 9:10 am

   Nice list.

   Two things that came to mind at first glance:

   1) Berkman comes out smelling like a rose here (as #7 mentions above).
   2) I can't believe Luzinski was only 26 (or less) years old in 1977 season.

10. Kahuna Tuna Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 10:12 am

    No second basemen on this list. According to a list you can view here, the highest RE24 since 1950 by a young second baseman is the 55.492 posted by a 24-year-old Pete Rose in 1965.

11. DavidRF Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 10:44 am

    Interesting stat. I was comparing the RE24 list to the RC list (because RC doesn't have the play-by-play restrictions) and there is quite a difference between the two lists. I mean, they're correlated, but it situational splits make a significant difference with RE24.

    I mean, looking at the 2B list, I would have thought that Sandberg-1984 would be better, but I guess not.

    Anyhow, to get a second baseman on the list, you could go back to Hornsby-1922. He was 26 that year. Retrosheet actually has PBP for about half the games that year. Its possible he might have 60 RE24 in only those games.

12. Ken Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 11:19 am

    Mantle's 1957 season stands out with 93.4 RE24 and 94 RBI. That led me to check if any player has had a season with a higher RE24 than RBI's.

    There are 5 players that have done it with more than 10 RBIs, and only 3 with more than 25. Barry Bonds did it in 2002 and 2004 and Joe Morgan in 1972.

    Players with Runs < RE24 is even more rare. Ted Williams' partial 1953 season being the one with the highest RE24 at 24.

13. argman Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 11:28 am

    I noticed that Mays only appears on this list once. His '55 and '57 seasons narrowly miss the cut, even though he had outstanding numbers in OPS+ and WAR. Is this telling us that he wasn't as "clutch" a hitter in those years as one might expect based on his "overall" stats? I'm trying to understand these new metrics, so I appreciate the explanations.

14. Johnny Twisto Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 11:43 am

    Good question Argman. If you scroll down to the Win Probability section of his Batting page (direct link is not working), you could compare his Batting Runs to his RE24. Both of these are essentially runs created above average, so they are on the same scale. (You could also compare his WAR batting runs, under the Player Value table, which is another version of runs created but calculated slightly differently.) In '55 and '57, he led the league in Batting Runs with over 60 each season, but his RE24 totals are only about 57. So this indicates that perhaps he did not create quite as many runs as the raw stats indicate. However, his "boLI" are under 1.00. The leverage of the base-out situations in which he batted was below average. This means he might have been coming up with fewer runners on base, or perhaps more often with 2 outs, etc, than an average player. RE24/boLI adjusts for that, and show that he actually created about 65-66 runs more than an average player in those seasons, based on the base-out opportunities he had.

15. DavidRF Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 11:55 am

    @13
    For Mays-55 and Mays-57, it appears the issue is missing play-by-play data. He's missing PBP data for 23 of his games in 1955 and 19 of his games in 1957.

    Eddie Mathews has similar issues from 1953-1955... especially 1953.

    PBP data becames spottier the closer you get to 1950. (If anyone has scoresheets from these games, send them to retrosheet! :-)).

    Is there a column in the situational tables stating how many PA have PBP data and how many have only boxes? There's lots of data on the "More Stats" tables... it may already be there. That would make it easier to spot these types of things.

16. DavidRF Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Boy, do I wish I could edit posts and clean up my typos. 🙂

    Anyhow, currently I find missing PBP games in a players game log by sorting on the leverage column "aLI" and counting the number of games at the bottom where that value is blank.

17. Johnny Twisto Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Good find David, I didn't realize so many games were still missing from those years. Yes, B-R should definitely make that more clear.

18. Mike Felber Says:
    November 23rd, 2010 at 5:34 pm

    I recall an article on dugoutcentral.com which showed what most here no-"clutch" performance is rare to non-existent. If you look under a statistically significant # of opportunities to avoid random fluctuations, meaning that you search correctly. But Mantle was one of the very few listed as "clutch" over his career, & I think they measured RISP & late & close. I recall that he was something over 10% better in these situations over his career. Though his post season OPS +was like most players, a little worse (due to better pitching).

    He was at something like 112 or so for a career meaning over 10% better than his already high standard in these situations. Mays was at 99, & most everyone was close to their normal performance-over a career.