Players with the most 90-99 RBI seasons and worst 100-RBI seasons
Posted by Andy on October 11, 2007
The talk of Josh Beckett possibly winning the AL Cy Young largely on the strength of 20 wins reminded me just how much we tend to judge ballplayers on fairly arbitrary numbers. Until the offensive explosion of the 1990s, if a guy hit 20 homers, he was a power hitter. If he hit 19, he wasn't. We stat-minded folks know that there's no significant difference between 19 and 20 homers, and that it's quite possible that the 19-HR guy had a much more productive season than the 20-HR guy.
These days, the 20-HR "barrier" no longer exists since just about every Tom, Dick, and Harry hits 20 HRs now and then. But one barrier that still lingers is the 100-RBI barrier. If a guy gets 100 RBIs in a season, he's a run-producer, and if he gets 99, he's not.
We all know that's ridiculous, and for the heck of it, I wanted to see which players got between 90 and 99 RBI the most. These are guys who, with a little luck, would probably be remembered much better than they are (for no particularly good reason.)
From To Ages Seasons Link to Individual Seasons +-----------------+----+----+-----+-------+------------------------------+ Billy Williams 1962 1971 24-33 7 Ind. Seasons Eddie Murray 1978 1992 22-36 6 Ind. Seasons Dave Parker 1976 1990 25-39 6 Ind. Seasons Ken Boyer 1956 1962 25-31 6 Ind. Seasons Robin Ventura 1992 2002 24-34 5 Ind. Seasons Chili Davis 1988 1997 28-37 5 Ind. Seasons Harold Baines 1983 1996 24-37 5 Ind. Seasons Keith Hernandez 1977 1985 23-31 5 Ind. Seasons Ted Simmons 1972 1982 22-32 5 Ind. Seasons Bobby Murcer 1971 1976 25-30 5 Ind. Seasons Lee May 1970 1977 27-34 5 Ind. Seasons Tony Perez 1968 1977 26-35 5 Ind. Seasons Frank Robinson 1963 1973 27-37 5 Ind. Seasons Eddie Mathews 1956 1965 24-33 5 Ind. Seasons Hank Aaron 1956 1973 22-39 5 Ind. Seasons Mickey Mantle 1953 1960 21-28 5 Ind. Seasons Rogers Hornsby 1920 1931 24-35 5 Ind. Seasons
Interesting. With the exception of a few players who certainly don't suffer from under-deserved reputations (Murray, Robinson, Mathews, Aaron, Mantle, and Hornsby) the rest of this list is comprised of guys who are thought of as being just a cut below when it comes to run-production. Even Murray is somewhat thought of that way, although he made the Hall of Fame easily based on great longevity and consistency. But some of these guys - Baines, Hernandez, Simmons, Murcer, Perez - are classic "almost greats" in terms of reputation. Frankly, I'd take any of them over most of today's alleged "stars."
Here's another interesting list among these seasons of 90 to 99 RBIs: highest OPS+
Cnt Player **OPS+** RBI Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Positions +----+-----------------+--------+---+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+ 1 Barry Bonds 231 90 2003 38 SFG NL 130 550 390 111 133 22 1 45 148 61 58 10 0 2 7 7 0 .341 .529 .749 1.278 *7/D 2 Mickey Mantle 223 94 1957 25 NYY AL 144 623 474 121 173 28 6 34 146 23 75 0 0 3 5 16 3 .365 .512 .665 1.177 *8 3 Rogers Hornsby 222 94 1924 28 STL NL 143 640 536 121 227 43 14 25 89 0 32 2 13 0 0 5 12 .424 .507 .696 1.203 *4 4 Ty Cobb 206 91 1910 23 DET AL 140 590 506 106 194 35 13 8 64 0 0 4 16 0 0 65 0 .383 .456 .551 1.007 *89 5 Mark McGwire 200 90 1995 31 OAK AL 104 422 317 75 87 13 0 39 88 5 77 11 0 6 9 1 1 .274 .441 .685 1.126 *3D 6 Rogers Hornsby 200 94 1928 32 BSN NL 140 619 486 99 188 42 7 21 107 0 41 1 25 0 0 5 0 .387 .498 .632 1.130 *4 7 Mike Schmidt 199 91 1981 31 PHI NL 102 434 354 78 112 19 2 31 73 18 71 4 0 3 9 12 4 .316 .435 .644 1.079 *5 8 Joe Jackson 192 90 1912 22 CLE AL 154 653 572 121 226 44 26 3 54 0 0 12 15 0 0 35 0 .395 .458 .579 1.037 *98 9 Arky Vaughan 190 99 1935 23 PIT NL 137 610 499 108 192 34 10 19 97 0 18 7 7 0 5 4 0 .385 .491 .607 1.098 *6 10 Frank Robinson 188 94 1967 31 BAL AL 129 563 479 83 149 23 7 30 71 14 84 7 0 6 10 2 3 .311 .403 .576 .979 *97/3 11 Mickey Mantle 188 97 1958 26 NYY AL 150 654 519 127 158 21 1 42 129 13 120 2 2 2 11 18 3 .304 .443 .592 1.035 *8 12 Tris Speaker 188 90 1912 24 BOS AL 153 675 580 136 222 53 12 10 82 0 0 6 7 0 0 52 0 .383 .464 .567 1.031 *8 13 Rogers Hornsby 187 94 1920 24 STL NL 149 660 589 96 218 44 20 9 60 0 50 3 8 0 0 12 15 .370 .431 .559 .990 *4 14 Ed Delahanty 186 93 1902 34 WSH AL 123 539 473 103 178 43 14 10 62 0 0 4 0 0 0 16 0 .376 .453 .590 1.043 *73 15 Ty Cobb 185 99 1915 28 DET AL 156 700 563 144 208 31 13 3 118 0 43 10 9 0 0 96 38 .369 .486 .487 .973 *8 16 Babe Ruth 182 99 1922 27 NYY AL 110 495 406 94 128 24 8 35 84 0 80 1 4 0 0 2 5 .315 .434 .672 1.106 *79/3 17 Bobby Murcer 181 94 1971 25 NYY AL 146 624 529 94 175 25 6 25 91 13 60 0 1 3 9 14 8 .331 .427 .543 .970 *8 18 Mickey Mantle 181 99 1955 23 NYY AL 147 638 517 121 158 25 11 37 113 6 97 3 2 3 4 8 1 .306 .431 .611 1.042 *8/6 19 Hank Aaron 178 97 1969 35 ATL NL 147 639 547 100 164 30 3 44 87 19 47 2 0 3 14 9 10 .300 .396 .607 1.003 *9/3 20 Tris Speaker 178 90 1914 26 BOS AL 158 668 571 101 193 46 18 4 77 0 25 7 13 0 0 42 29 .338 .423 .503 .926 *8/13 21 Hank Aaron 177 96 1973 39 ATL NL 115 465 392 84 118 12 1 40 68 13 51 1 0 4 7 1 1 .301 .402 .643 1.045 *79 22 Boog Powell 176 99 1964 22 BAL AL 134 506 424 74 123 17 0 39 76 6 91 2 2 2 9 0 0 .290 .399 .606 1.005 *7/3 23 Steve Evans 176 96 1914 29 BTT FL 145 580 514 93 179 41 15 12 50 0 49 10 6 0 0 18 0 .348 .416 .556 .972 *973/8 24 Stan Musial 175 94 1944 23 STL NL 146 667 568 112 197 51 14 12 90 0 28 5 4 0 7 7 0 .347 .440 .549 .989 *98/7 25 Willie Mays 173 97 1957 26 NYG NL 152 668 585 112 195 26 20 35 76 15 62 1 0 6 14 38 19 .333 .407 .626 1.033 *8
A lot of these seasons are by very productive players who ended up with 90-99 RBIs because of so many walks (and not enough opportunities to drive in runs.) But there are a lot of interesting seasons on there--I'm not going to make many comments, but give yourself a couple of minutes to take a look at it.
And now, the converse, the worst 100+ RBI seasons of all time, as ranked by lowest OPS+
Cnt Player **OPS+** RBI Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Positions +----+-----------------+--------+---+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+ 1 Joe Carter 76 102 1997 37 TOR AL 157 668 612 76 143 30 4 21 40 5 105 7 0 9 12 8 2 .234 .284 .399 .683 D379 2 Vinny Castilla 82 102 1999 31 COL NL 158 674 615 83 169 24 1 33 53 7 75 1 0 5 15 2 3 .275 .331 .478 .809 *5 3 Ray Pepper 82 101 1934 28 SLB AL 148 598 564 71 168 24 6 7 29 0 67 1 4 0 0 1 4 .298 .333 .399 .732 *78/9 4 Ruben Sierra 85 101 1993 27 OAK AL 158 692 630 77 147 23 5 22 52 16 97 0 0 10 17 25 5 .233 .288 .390 .678 *9D 5 Joe Carter 85 115 1990 30 SDP NL 162 697 634 79 147 27 1 24 48 18 93 7 0 8 12 22 6 .232 .290 .391 .681 *873 6 Tony Armas 85 107 1983 29 BOS AL 145 613 574 77 125 23 2 36 29 0 131 2 0 8 31 0 1 .218 .254 .453 .707 *8D 7 Marv Owen 85 105 1936 30 DET AL 154 655 583 72 172 20 4 9 53 0 41 7 12 0 0 9 6 .295 .361 .389 .750 *5/3 8 Glenn Wright 86 105 1927 26 PIT NL 143 626 570 78 160 26 4 9 39 0 46 1 16 0 0 4 0 .281 .328 .388 .716 *6 9 Tony Batista 88 110 2004 30 MON NL 157 650 606 76 146 30 2 32 26 4 78 4 4 10 14 14 6 .241 .272 .455 .727 *5 10 Jeff Francoeur 89 103 2006 22 ATL NL 162 686 651 83 169 24 6 29 23 6 132 9 0 3 16 1 6 .260 .293 .449 .742 *9/8 11 Paul O'Neill 89 100 2000 37 NYY AL 142 628 566 79 160 26 0 18 51 2 90 0 0 11 17 14 9 .283 .336 .424 .760 *9/D 12 Ray Jablonski 89 112 1953 26 STL NL 157 640 604 64 162 23 5 21 34 0 61 1 1 0 15 2 2 .268 .308 .427 .735 *5 13 Joe Carter 90 107 1996 36 TOR AL 157 682 625 84 158 35 7 30 44 2 106 7 0 6 12 7 6 .253 .306 .475 .781 *73D 14 Joe Pepitone 90 100 1964 23 NYY AL 160 647 613 71 154 12 3 28 24 7 63 3 2 5 17 2 1 .251 .281 .418 .699 *38/9 15 George Kelly 91 103 1929 33 CIN NL 147 632 577 73 169 45 9 5 33 0 61 1 21 0 0 7 0 .293 .332 .428 .760 *3 16 Ernie Banks 92 106 1969 38 CHC NL 155 629 565 60 143 19 2 23 42 7 101 7 8 7 15 0 0 .253 .309 .416 .725 *3 17 Travis Fryman 93 100 1996 27 DET AL 157 688 616 90 165 32 3 22 57 2 118 4 1 10 18 4 3 .268 .329 .437 .766 *56 18 Joe Randa 94 106 2000 30 KCR AL 158 665 612 88 186 29 4 15 36 3 66 6 1 10 19 6 3 .304 .343 .438 .781 *5/D 19 Willie McGee 94 105 1987 28 STL NL 153 652 620 76 177 37 11 11 24 5 90 2 1 5 24 16 4 .285 .312 .434 .746 *8/6 20 Eddie Robinson 94 102 1953 32 PHA AL 156 685 615 64 152 28 4 22 63 0 56 5 2 0 13 1 2 .247 .322 .413 .735 *3 21 Gee Walker 94 111 1939 31 CHW AL 149 645 598 95 174 30 11 13 28 0 43 7 12 0 16 17 6 .291 .330 .443 .773 *7 22 Moose Solters 94 134 1936 30 SLB AL 152 676 628 100 183 45 7 17 41 0 76 1 6 0 0 3 0 .291 .336 .467 .803 *7/8 23 Pinky Higgins 95 106 1938 29 BOS AL 139 603 524 77 159 29 5 5 71 0 55 1 7 0 0 10 9 .303 .388 .406 .794 *5 24 Wally Pipp 95 108 1923 30 NYY AL 144 634 569 79 173 19 8 6 36 0 28 6 23 0 0 6 13 .304 .352 .397 .749 *3 25 Andruw Jones 96 104 2001 24 ATL NL 161 693 625 104 157 25 2 34 56 3 142 3 0 9 10 11 4 .251 .312 .461 .773 *8
If you've been a reader for a little while, you'll know that I posted this already, along with some analysis, back here. These guys are almost all significantly overrated.
October 11th, 2007 at 8:21 am
I remember a lot of those seasons well. Good luck convincing anyone who grew up in the 80's that Joe Carter is overrated.
Those speedy Cardinals teams always had interesting RBI stats. Tommy Herr had the 3rd lightest hitting 100 RBI season ever (based on Isolated Slugging), when he batted 3rd behind Vince Coleman and Ozzie Smith. In '87, Willie McGee hit 5th in that lineup - of course, he often had an opportunity to drive in the leadoff men, but he was also right behind Jack Clark, who walked about 100 times before the All-Star break.
October 11th, 2007 at 9:41 am
Tony Perez strung together 11 straight 90+ RBI seasons from 1967 to 1977. That was in an era when 90 RBIs was the new 100 RBIs. Perez place in the NL top ten in RBIs in 10 of those years (1967 to 1976).
All things being relative, 10 straight top-10 finishes in RBIs is very impressive. Is there a way to search for most consecutive top-ten finishes in RBIs?
October 11th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Not to my knowledge, although I like the way you're thinking--I agree that raw numbers don't mean as much as relative rank or other numbers normalized for context. That's one of the reasons why I like OPS+ and ERA+ so much...it corrects for a lot of factors.
October 11th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Slightly unrelated, but when is b-r going to make stats like Batting Runs sortable?
October 11th, 2007 at 10:12 am
That's a question for the Big Boss Man (i.e. Sean.)
October 11th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Yeah, I asked him a while ago.
It feels like forever since the last baseball game was played.
October 11th, 2007 at 10:24 am
I would also like to see Runs Created have a larger presence on the site, not to mention Win Shares.
October 11th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Andy, great concept for this post. I abhor arbitrary number cut-offs. Why is it that so many people hate numbers, but then choose to use them in stupid ways?
vonhayes, check out Sean's blog for updates on migrating the site to tables instead of fixed width text:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/
October 11th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Keith Hernandez also has 5 seasons hitting between .290 and .299.
Only 4 players have as many as 6.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/HHkd
October 11th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
This topic reminds me of the same discussion involving stolen bases. But something I found more interesting was that Eric Byrnes stole 50 bases this year at the age of 31, while his counterparts at the top of the stolen base list included nobody over the age of 28. I think it would be interesting to see who the oldest players to steal 50 bases were if that's possible with this stat-searching program of yours.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/3Qwg
October 11th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Andy stole my idea for half of this post.
Sky, that's kind of what I was talking about, not exactly, but it's cool nonetheless. I guess I should have been more clear - I was hoping we'd see yearly leaderboards for some of the less standard stats, like batting runs and win shares.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Thanks for that Oscar. That's pretty incredible that Lou Brock stole 118 bases when he was 35.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
You hear coaches say all the time that basestealing has more to do with ability to read the pitcher than it does with actual speed (although of course speed helps.) At age 35, Brock probably had above-average speed (but not lightening-fast speed) so he could still steal quite easily. The same was true for Henderson, although by the time he was 35 the game had changed enough such that stolen bases weren't as common.
Oscar, if I could make you an honorary poster, I would. Thanks for adding in the helpful links.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Oh no, Paulie! Makes sense though. Lucky for Tommy Herr he notched career highs in doubles and walks in '85.
What I'd love to figure out is displaying streaks of seasons. Consecutive years under 90 RBI, over 100, all careers with 300+ AB in every season... all that kind of arbitrary stuff.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
I did talk to Sean about streak season finders a while ago...it's on his radar, I know, but was just too much to implement with the initial release of the PI. The PI is pretty amazing, though, and just look at how much it has been improved since it launched. Within a few years, it will be the most powerful stat tool in existence.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Yeah that Tommy Herr season wasn't bad, he just had no HR power.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Not to get off topic, but Beckett and Sabathia had remarkably similar seasons. There is no statistical difference between their ERA, ERA+, wins, K/9, BB/9, HR allowed, BAA, or WHIP. Sabathia has more IP, but Beckett has more CG and SHO. If Beckett wins the Cy, the question will be what gave him the edge over Sabathia with all statistical variables being equal. I would argue that his presence in the larger market of Boston carried more weight than the aura of 20 wins.
October 11th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
vonhayes, I didn't steal your idea. I gave you full credit on the original post. I suggest you reign things in a bit.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Just messing around. I will try.
October 11th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Above I mentioned Tony Perez's 10 consecutive seasons in the top-10 for RBIs. Chipper Jones has only been in the top-10 once! Which is more impressive? Chipper's seven straight seasons with 100+ RBIs, or Perez's 10 consecutive seasons in the top-10?
Aaron, Mays, Ott, F Robinson, DiMaggio and Mize also had 10 consecutive seasons. Simmons had 11, Anson 12, Gehrig and Foxx 13, Musial, Wagner and Crawford with 15 consecutive seasons. So Perez's feat is awfully impressive.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
I agree in principle with your Perez/Jones comparison. Looking at OPS+, Perez was at 122 for his career while Jones is at 144. If you take out Perez' substandard performance from age 39 on, his OPS+ for his career through age 38 was about 125.
So, I'd definitely say it's tough to tear down Chipper, or suggest he's not as good a player as Perez was.
I also wonder about the current offensive environment, where we have more productive 6-, 7-, and 8-spot hitters than in Perez' era. Offense overall is increased, but I wonder how Chipper's total opportunities compare with Perez.
With RISP, Perez had 1234 RBI in 3405 PA, or 0.362 RBIs per PA.
With RISP, Jones has 880 RBI in 2344 PA, or 0.375 RBIs per PA.
Pretty similar...
October 11th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
A bit more data I should have included:
Jones has had 8143 total PAs, and 2344 of those had RISP (28.8%)
Perez had 10861 total PAs, and 3405 of those had RISP (31.4%)
So, at least by that metric, Jones seems to have had fewer opportunities.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
It isn't about Jones having few opportunities than Perez. It's about Perez performing well in RBIs year after year among his peers. Jones was getting 100 RBIs, but not placing in the top ten each year.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
By the way, I am not saying Chipper Jones is a bad player. But I am saying that I find Perez's RBI numbers more impressive than Jones' because of the top-ten element.
October 11th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
I think the issue I am trying to get at is that there are many more players nowadays that have a decent chance of getting in the top 10, whereas in Perez' day, only the 3, 4, and perhaps 5 hitters had a chance.
And, look, I am not disagreeing with your overall point. I'm just saying that the top-10 metric is, like all other stats, limited.
October 11th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Interesting idea. I thought I'd look at 2007. Looks like the AL has more breadth because of the DH, while the NL is more about 3, 4, 5 hitters.
2007 AL
Rodriguez-NYY (batted 4th)
Ordonez-DET (batted 4th)
Guerrero-LAA (batted 3rd & 4th)
Pena-TBD (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th)
Lowell-BOS (batted 6th)
Ortiz-BOS (batted 3rd)
Martinez-CLE (batted 4th & 3rd)
Markakis-BAL (batted 3rd & 2nd)
Morneau-MIN (batted 4th & 5th)
Hunter-MIN (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th)
NL 2007
Holliday-COL (batted 3rd)
Howard-PHI (batted 4th)
Cabrera-FLA (batted 3rd & 4th)
Fielder-MIL (batted 3rd & 4th)
Lee-HOU (batted 4th)
Hawpe-COL (batted 6th)
Beltran-NYM (batted 3rd & 4th)
Atkins-COL (batted 5th)
Wright-NYM (batted 3rd, 4th, 5th)
Dunn-CIN (batted mostly 5th)