4+ Seasons Of 400+ PA & Less Than 100 Hits
Posted by Steve Lombardi on November 12, 2010
This is an interesting list. It's players with 4 seasons (or more) with at least 400 PA where they also had less than 100 hits.
Here's the list:
.
This is an eclectic collection. Some glove guys. A few speed guys. Some all-or-nothing hitters. And, that BALCO product that everyone was afraid to pitch to...
November 12th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Ha, yeah. I saw Bonds on there and had to remember that he's on this list because he kept getting walked! And leading the league in OBP with a .270 batting average isn't normal either...lol.
November 12th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
And yet Barry still would've gotten 3000 hits if the league didn't blackball him. How no team signed him for 2008, when Jason Giambi still gets contracts blows my mind.
November 12th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
Giambi admitted to being a cheating scumbag.
November 12th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Surprised not to see Max Bishop. He was a notorious high-BB/low-H guy, but not even one of these seasons for him. He had 7 seasons between 103-115 hits.
November 12th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
I thought Dave Kingman might have made this list.....guess not. He came close though.
November 12th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
@3
I'm confused how one cheats without breaking a rule? Could you explain that to me?
November 13th, 2010 at 12:03 am
Giambi implied that he cheated, but to protect himself, never made any actual specific admissions. But it is almost certain the reports of him using PEDs were true. And he did break the rules. That the substances were not tested for or penalties applied until a dozen or so years later is distinct from what the Commissioner G-man formally banned in the very early '90's. And players hid it or lied because they knew it was illegal & considered, very correctly, an unfair advantage. Cheating that changed the records of players, teams, & denied honest men equal success & sometimes jobs/their MLB dreams.
November 13th, 2010 at 12:06 am
I request that when these raw # lists are published, there are stats like wOPS + included. Seeing real offensive production & how folks had similar patterns with very different results would be much more interesting. Just era, & also walks & power, effect who makes the list or is actually effective.
November 13th, 2010 at 12:26 am
There's actually some good seasons mixed in this group because many of the players walked often or played an important defensive position or hit home runs.
I didn't look at every player, but these are some of the seasons I found with a 2.3+ WAR:
Bonds 2006: 4.6
Bonds 2007: 4.0
Ferguson 1974: 3.9
Porter 1975: 3.8
Dempsey 1985: 3.3
Bonds 2007: 3.3
Sundberg 1974: 3.2
Dempsey 1980: 3.2
Bonds 1986: 2.9
Cruz 1999: 2.8
Nettles 1984: 2.6
Evans 1981: 2.6
Porter 1982: 2.4
Harrelson 1969: 2.4
Blauser 1992: 2.4
Harrelson 1973: 2.3
Boone 1976: 2.3
Blauser 1994: 2.3
November 13th, 2010 at 9:29 am
As soon as I saw the topic, I thought, "Dal Maxvill was made for this one!"
November 13th, 2010 at 10:09 am
I was a bit surprised not to see Mario Mendoza...then I checked and saw he only had two seasons of over 300 PA, and only one with 400.
November 13th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Can anybody beat Rob Deer's 500+ PA seasons with under 100 hits?
November 13th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
Come on Jimbo, say what you're thinking, its a racial thing right?
November 13th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
People act like Barry Bonds invented steroids. In his own lab. Using Federal dollars. Dollars that were to be spent on curing cancer.
Every steroid abuser who ever lived will be welcomed back by the game with love and kisses before Bonds is forgiven.
A racial thing? Maybe. Maybe because he got the single-season and all-time HR records via steroids. Maybe because more than any other player his performance distorted the record books. Maybe because reporters never liked him. Maybe because he was never fan-friendly. Maybe because everyone needs someone to be the face of something they hate.
November 13th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Hey, how did I get that guy as an "avatar." Who is it anyway, Honus Wagner?
November 13th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
"Maybe because reporters never liked him. Maybe because he was never fan-friendly. Maybe because everyone needs someone to be the face of something they hate."
there's your answer right there.
Additionally, lets point out that MLB knew about steroids in the late 80's/early 90's and thought it would police itself. Shockingly, they were wrong, and then instead of saying, man we really should have had a rule in place years ago, they said, someone broke a hallowed recrord... discredit him! I can't blame the players... MLB chose not to stop it before it was an epidemic...
November 13th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
I don't think it's racial at all with Bonds, I think it's just his personality-Clemens is treated the same way more or less.
Bonds was probably a better choice at DH than anybody in 2008. In 340 AB's his last season playing he hit 28HR with a .480 OBP-ANY player would take those numbers
November 14th, 2010 at 4:02 am
There are always racists, but people love Mays, his Godfather, & somehow he said they would not have a statue of a black man...& they did of Willie. Aaron & many other black guys are deeply respected. Bonds was 1) mean in general, 20 unkind to reporters, 3) difficult & arrogant with reporters & fans, 4) distorted the record book with his PED usage combined with talent & developed skills.
It amazes me how people do not know that MLB had a rule in place at the start of the '90's against steroids. Yes, they did not police, test or punish it until years later. But the fact that they were negligent does not mean it is mature or right to absolve cheaters & liars of their crimes. If the police do not respond to riots or looting effectively, that does not mean we absolve criminals of blame. Er, unless they need groceries to survive-N'awlins the exception to the rule.
Though there is a good chance blackballing could have occurred. Which ALSO would have been wrong. There has been collusion in the recent past. Yet given his legs & reputation, it is possible that no team wanted to take the P.R. hit, even if they would risk him being able to play, knee-wise.
November 14th, 2010 at 4:16 am
Also-though you cannot blame Bonds for this-i have heard many times how limited the Bond's strike zone became. Similar to "the Jordan rules". A superb player getting unfair advantage. I have heard that anything above the belt was called a ball. That & the body armor, & the # of intentional walks he got, mainly 1 year, were all irrational.
Any player under comparable conditions would have a significant advantage. not that they would be as good as Bonds, just that this helped his stats go from great to otherwoldly.
November 14th, 2010 at 9:31 am
There absolutely was a racial element to Bond's treatment. Yes, Clemens was eventually reviled, but not until long after he stopped pitching. Clemens, Pettitte, Giambi, McGwire... all were loved despite rumors and evidence to their PED use. People cheered McGwire every step of the way in 1998. Bonds was rooted against in 2001 by many folks. Yes, he was ornery and arrogant, but even casual fans struggled to get behind him, because of how negatively the narrative surrounding him was constructed. I don't think it was ENTIRELY racial, but to deny that it played a part is pretty ignorant. Why else does a guy who is still posting elite stats not even get an offer? Keith Law has commented on some of the horribly ugly ways in which race plays a factor in how teams evaluate players and eventually make decisions. I have no doubt it factored into the Bonds situation.
November 14th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
"If the police do not respond to riots or looting effectively, that does not mean we absolve criminals of blame."
We don't absolve the criminals but we also don't re-elect the sheriff on the next ballot...
November 14th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Getting back to Steve's topic ...
Steve, I'm wondering why you chose to filter on Hits and PAs, given that there's no metric that directly compares those 2 things.
I can't really see a unifying theme to this list. As others noted, the list includes truly bad offensive players (e.g., Bud Harrelson), "three true outcomes" guys like Rob Deer, and good hitters whose value was concentrated in walks and power, like Darrell Evans and Boog Powell.
Plus a bunch of catchers, partly because a #1 (but not every-day) catcher often gets right around 400 PAs in a season.
Am I missing something?
November 15th, 2010 at 2:57 am
Right, do not give the powers that be a re-up Thomas. I was opposing the idea that their sins in any way absolve the law breakers of blame.
Personally I said that there are always racists. It is a matter of degree how much it is involved. Even for those who thought Bond's treatment had minimal or no racism, I do not think the word "ignorant" is fair. While it literally means, centrally, one who does not know, it has indisputable connotations of ugly bias & being backwards. One can honestly differ on these things without being "ignorant" in the crass-cracker implied form of the word.
And I do not think that racism was a huge factor with Bonds. The other players you mentioned BSK: they varied quite a bit re: when they were beloved, & what were the evidence or rumors. For example, Big Mac had no serious rumours about PED useage in '98-he had answered the Andro questions, gave them up when questioned when they were fully legal & widely available.
And NONE of them presented near the total package of Bonds, as being rude, arrogant, unkind-to fans, reporters, & teammates alike. And reserved special locker room privileges re: # of lockers, his special chair nobody could touch...Put a white player in his place. I think the reaction to an equally ornery/mean player, who alienated reporters, would be close to the same.
I AGREE that even today their are racist narratives behind players, & one example is how black players & minorities tend to be labeled as naturally talented, & whites hard working or "gritty".
But there was a lot more racism the better part of 4 decades ago when Aaron was going for the HR record. he encountered terrible racist cowardly threats, & the nation as a whole was more racists then. But still there was more enthusiasm for his quest, & admiration of the man. That is one of a few ways to confirm that Bonds was mostly responsible for his own treatment. He has also showed some racist tinges himself-but that is subsumed under his general nastiness. I feel bad for the world he has constructed for himself.
Also, not his fault: but no player of any color seemed to get the tiny strike zone he did. This is part of the phenomena of us just subtly conspiring to love & aid greatness-as done for Jordan. A kind of primal adoration of winners-even though there are countervailing trends of disliking him personally.
Reality is often contrary like that. Folks have mixed feelings.