Born In The Sixties
Posted by Steve Lombardi on July 17, 2010
A fun little list via Play Index...with some tweaking on the results...players who have appeared in games this season, and who are still currently active, who were born in the 1960's.
From 1901 to 2010, Active Players, (requiring birth_year<=1969), sorted by greatest Games Played
| Rk | Player | G | Born | From | To | Age | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | Tm | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Omar Vizquel | 2788 | 1967 | 1989 | 2010 | 22-43 | 11439 | 10064 | 1398 | 2741 | 438 | 75 | 79 | 921 | 991 | 25 | 1029 | 49 | 246 | 89 | 195 | 391 | 159 | .272 | .338 | .354 | .692 | *6/54D9 | SEA-CLE-SFG-TEX-CHW |
| 3 | Brad Ausmus | 1951 | 1969 | 1993 | 2010 | 24-41 | 7034 | 6220 | 714 | 1566 | 269 | 34 | 80 | 605 | 627 | 68 | 1019 | 68 | 82 | 37 | 198 | 102 | 53 | .252 | .325 | .345 | .670 | *2/3456 | SDP-TOT-HOU-DET-LAD |
| 4 | Matt Stairs | 1799 | 1968 | 1992 | 2010 | 24-42 | 5896 | 5091 | 759 | 1343 | 290 | 13 | 261 | 889 | 703 | 59 | 1089 | 57 | 5 | 40 | 108 | 30 | 24 | .264 | .357 | .480 | .837 | 9D37/84 | MON-BOS-OAK-CHC-MIL-PIT-KCR-TOT-TOR-PHI-SDP |
| 5 | Trevor Hoffman | 1014 | 1967 | 1993 | 2010 | 25-42 | 35 | 33 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 10 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .121 | .121 | .182 | .303 | *1 | TOT-SDP-MIL |
| 6 | Mariano Rivera | 952 | 1969 | 1995 | 2010 | 25-40 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .000 | .250 | .000 | .250 | *1 | NYY |
| 7 | Arthur Rhodes | 824 | 1969 | 1991 | 2010 | 21-40 | 5 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .200 | .200 | .200 | .400 | *1 | BAL-SEA-OAK-CLE-PHI-TOT-CIN |
| 8 | Jamie Moyer | 690 | 1962 | 1986 | 2010 | 23-47 | 485 | 387 | 23 | 49 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 13 | 34 | 0 | 142 | 1 | 61 | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | .127 | .198 | .140 | .338 | *1 | CHC-TEX-STL-BAL-SEA-BOS-TOT-PHI |
| 10 | Tim Wakefield | 584 | 1966 | 1992 | 2010 | 25-43 | 126 | 107 | 4 | 13 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 43 | 1 | 15 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .121 | .153 | .168 | .321 | *1 | PIT-BOS |
.
Ausmus is on the D.L. - since April. So, maybe he should be chopped off this list too? So, who will be the last man born in the 1960's to ever appear in a Major League Baseball game? My money is on Mo Rivera. Last to wear #42...and last '60's baby in the big leagues as well? Could be...
July 17th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Very good question. Another one I think is very cool is, who will be the 1st player who's career started in the 90s to make the HOF?
Puckett was the 1st player from the 80s in the HOF
July 17th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Tony,
I think that Bagwell was the first great player who fits your criteria to retire. But the writers might choose the other guy born that day, or someone else. I think that Bagwell may be a type of player the BBWA would tend to undervalue.
July 17th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
I figured Gary Sheffield (b. 1968) would be on this list at some point this season but he hasn't been signed by anyone.
July 17th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
I remember, when 18-year-old Mike Morgan was drafted by Oakland in 1978 and brought to the big leagues right away, thinking that he was likely the first major leaguer born in the 1960s. However, he was actually born in October 1959, so someone else was the first one born in the 1960s. Starlin Castro just became the first one born in the 1990s. I remember reading at the time it happened that someone with a Hispanic name, no doubt signed as a teenager in the mid-1980s from outside the U.S., was the first guy born in the 1970s to make the majors. I was thinking that it was Sil Campusano, but I just looked him up here, and he is listed as having been born on New Year's Eve 1965. So, unless his birthdate was listed wrong when he debuted, and it's since been corrected, it's someone else.
July 17th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
@4
The yearly league pages keep track of the ten youngest players in AL/NL/MLB.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1978-other-leaders.shtml
Tim Conroy was the first 60s-born player
July 17th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Wilson Alvarez was the first player born in the 70s to play in the major leagues.
July 17th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
I know I posed this thought in one of the Moyer threads, but's incredibly sad that we have come so close to having a generation of players that will have never seen Willie Mays play.
July 17th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
First born in each decade:
1860s - Frank Pearce
1870s - Fred Chapman or Amos Rusie (Chapman's in Lahman, but not here at bb-ref)
1880s - Joe Stanley
1890s - Stuffy McInnis
1900s - John Cavanaugh
1910s - Joe Cicero
1920s - Walt Masterson
1930s - Johnny Antonelli
1940s - Dave Skaugstad
1950s - Lloyd Allen
1960s - Tim Conroy
1970s - Wilson Alvarez
1980s - Albert Pujols
July 17th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
Kds,
I think Bagwell is a pretty good choice. It's true that he might not be as likely as Thomas to make it on the first ballot, but he'll also have a three-year head start (Bagwell's last year was '05, Thomas's '08).
I'm curious why you think he might be undervalued. Except for having fallen short of 500 HR, which would have made him a lock, he actually looks like a Hall of Famer by most traditional standards. He won an MVP and finished in the top ten in MVP voting several other times; he had a few All-Star appearances; he won a Gold Glove and some Silver Sluggers; he hit .297 lifetime and had a number of .300 seasons; he had a ton of 100-RBI and 100-R seasons, and a ton of 30-HR (including a few 40-HR) seasons as well as 200+ SB, including a couple 30-30 years. FWIW, he also passes most of the Hall of Fame gauges, only falling short (and just by a little bit) on the Black Ink test.
So, I think even to voters who don't look at WAR and OPS+, Bagwell will still look like a Hall of Famer. He might not be a first-ballot guy, but I could see him getting in within his first three years. Maybe he and Thomas will get elected in the same class, which would actually be pretty cool.
July 17th, 2010 at 3:09 pm
Last player born in each decade
1830s - Dave Birdsall (or Harry Wright?)
1840s - Deacon White
1850s - Dan Brouthers
1860s - Hughie Jennings
1870s - Nick Altrock
1880s - Charley O'Leary and Grover Hartley (same last game!)
1890s - Hod Lisenbee
1900s - Satchel Paige (not counting 1965, Paige is 2nd to Dutch Leonard by three days)
1910s - Diomedes Olivo (his last game was before Paige's last game)
1920s - Minnie Minoso (second to last was Hoyt Wilhelm)
1930s - Phil Niekro
1940s - Charlie Hough
1950s - Julio Franco
July 17th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
"I'm curious why you think he might be undervalued."
He didn't get 2500 hits or 500 home runs or hit .300 in a hitter's era. Bagwell's case requires understanding the Astrodome's run suppression, the value of walks/OBP, and the value of SLG coming from a mix of BA, HR, and doubles. Jeff was one of the greatest 1B of all time, but there is some subtlety to his case to a traditional voter.
July 17th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
That list just makes me feel old in that there are only Two major leaguers older than me. How did that happen so fast?
It was a mistake to elect Kirby Puckett. If he was elected because of his injury, how come Thurman Munson wasn't elected on the same premise?
Bagwell will probably get elected. Top 50 player all time. The only thing that could stop him are steroid allegations. There's a very odd spike in Bagwell's career. From '91-93, (1675 AB, 1956 P.A.), he had a HR/Ab rate of 1hr per 31.6. Then in 1994 he had a HR/Ab Rate of 1HR per 10.25. Basically he went from being Nick Markakis or Lyle Overbay to Babe Ruth in one season.
July 17th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
I agree that the biggest obstacle is his failure to reach the big milestones, but I think that will be offset somewhat by the fact that he has so much of the hardware that HOF voters like to see--MVP, ROY, Gold Glove, Silver Sluggers, etc. In some ways, he's the reverse of Thome, who has the milestone (500 HR) but without the hardware.
I also think the fact that Bagwell played the field his whole career will be appealing to those voters who give a harsh penalty to guys who DHed for chunks of their careers (e.g. Thome, Thomas, Edgar Martinez). Having played his whole career with one team will also have its appeal to those voters who are sentimental about that kind of thing. (Of course, if that one team had been the Red Sox, Yankees, or Cubs, he'd be a first-ballot lock for sure.)
My guess will be that Bagwell clears 50% his first time on the ballot, and is elected within 3-5 years. I agree that if you don't value walks and OBP, his greatness is difficult to appreciate, though not nearly to the extent that Thome's is. Bagwell has enough other numbers (the batting average, the stolen bases, the runs scored) for the traditional voter to appreciate, I think.
July 17th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
I think it may be Jamie Moyer who will be the last player born in the 60's who is still playing. When you don't throw hard in the first place, you can't lose much velocity. As long as he's able to spot his pitches, change speeds, and throw left handed, he'll probably have a team willing to pay him.
July 17th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
I'd go with Moyer or Wakefield --they'll certainly want to pitch, especially Moyer, but it'll depend on whether someone still wants them. On talent I'd vote for Mo, but I think he'll be done in 1-2 years --that could be enough. In fact, I think all but Jeter will done playing in 2 years after this one. Perhaps Jorge sticks on another year as DH if he still needs a plateau such as 300 HR or most games caught ever by a Yankee. He'll certainly be at most a part-time catcher which is what he's starting to transition to anyway.
Bagwell has enough for both statheads and traditional voters but I can see him waiting 3-6 years.
July 17th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
I'm still waiting for a player to debut that was born after me. Also the possibility of Jamie Moyer being the last active player born in the 1960's is not too since, since he was born in the early 1960's. He was born in 1962.
July 17th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Either Rivera or Hoffman gets my vote, unless Stairs becomes one of tose Julio Franco, hang around forever typpes.
July 18th, 2010 at 7:41 am
This thread keeps making me think of The Police song "Born in the 50s", a little gem from earlier in their career.
July 18th, 2010 at 8:37 am
@Andy - LOL - that song is what inspired the title for this post. 😉
July 18th, 2010 at 8:54 am
I remember Glenn Hoffman, Trevor Hoffman's older brother, playing with the Boston Red Sox and their AAA team in Pawtucket RI back in the 1970s and 80s. I still have a 1979 program from a Pawtucket game that I went to when I was 10 years old that has a picture of Glenn and his 11 year old brother Trevor hanging out at the ballpark. Who knew back then that the little kid in that picture would become the greatest relief pitcher in history.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:11 am
What about the first guy born in the 2000's? I saw a slick-fielding 5th grader the other day...
July 18th, 2010 at 9:41 am
A great Police song --the 80's weren't great for music but the Police were one of the few great gems. Certainly a HoFer, but Hoffman's a bit overrated.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Andy,
How about Bobby Abreu and the hall of fame for the next poll? I know it seems silly but I was on his player page and noticed he was at both the marks for HOF Standards and HOF Monitor and I was pretty shocked to see that.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:34 am
"...the little kid in that picture would become the greatest relief pitcher in history."
Sorry to nitpick, but gonna have to go with 2nd greatest, at best. I'd put Rivera at the top, and you may be able to make a case for Eckersley and perhaps Gossage or Fingers or Wilhelm or Sutter ahead of Hoffman (though I would only consider Eck and maybe Goose), but that's difficult due to the different eras of their times as closers. He's definitely a HOF'er to be sure.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Andy,
I'd like to see a Poll on Trammell? IMO, he's the one getting robbed the most! Bert will go in this year.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Abreu is starting to make a case though, but I think he'll have to hit the 300 HR plateau and 2600-2700 hits to get a good look --a WS championship wouldn't hurt as well. He currently has 266 HR and 2200 hits and his average is at 297.
July 18th, 2010 at 11:59 am
James Earl Jones from "Field of Dreams"
"You're from the 60s? Back to the 60s. There's no place for you here. Get back while you still can!"
July 18th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Matt,
I agree with you, Trammell should be held sooner than Abreu. Trammel is retired and Abreu has atleast 2-3 effective years left in him
July 18th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Unless he falls off a cliff in the next couple years, Abreu has a good chance of reaching:
2,500 H
1,500 BB
1,500 R
1,500 RBI
300 HR
400 SB
His career BA is currently at .297 and his OBP at .401. Those will probably come down a bit as he declines, but it's reasonable to expect that he'll finish .290/.390 for his career. His WAR sits at 57.3--already borderline--and his five best seasons (which include a 7 WAR and a 6 WAR season) are all over 5.0. All of that taken together, I'd say he's in pretty good shape. I'd vote for him.
July 18th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
By the way, if Abreu were to reach all of the milestones I listed above (H, BB, R, RBI, HR, SB), he'd join Barry Bonds as the only other member of that club. Even just the 2,500-H/1,500-BB club is pretty elite: just ten members, all inner-circle Hall of Famers (well, eight, plus Bonds and Rose).
July 18th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
hey guys, not only is this not a HOF thread, it's not even my post, it's Steve's. I'll take your suggestions under advisement, but I have another subject in mind for the next HOF poll.
July 18th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Let the conversation drift where it will....
...anywhere to avoid the silliness of proclaiming Hoffman the greatest reliever ever.
July 18th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Sorry to perpetuate an off-topic discussion that has evolved from this topic, but when I saw the following article in the newspaper today, I thought of another player, now in the hands of the Veterans' Committee, who could be a good topic for a Hall-of-Fame or not poll and discussion here:
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20100718_Inside_Baseball__Enshrined_or_not__Allen_has_clout.html
July 18th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
@8 Regarding Johnny Antonelli - When I would go to visit my cousins in Rochester, NY, in the 1960s, they would point out a gas station owned by him. He's probably one of only a few players to have come from Rochester, although there were a lot more players from colder climates in the earlier days of baseball. (The Yankees' first round pick this year is from just outside of Rochester.)
Speaking of Rochester, I am trying to locate a Red Wings' schedule or game log from 1964. I was hoping the Minor League section of this web site would have one, but it doesn't. In particular, I am looking for a home victory against Jacksonville that took place in the last half of July or very early August of that year. It was the first minor league baseball game I ever attended and the last one until I went to a Binghamton-Trenton game on July 16, 2007.
July 18th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
I am still campaigning for both Jim Kaat and, of course, Tony Mullane for the HOF; but as far as Allen goes, only if the Hall has a wing dedicated to the career leader in Hoof And Mouth.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:13 pm
But Abreu doesn't FEEL like a HoFer!
July 18th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Seriously speaking, I'm a bit iffy on Abreu as a HoFer, even with a few more decent seasons. He's trending downward pretty heavily, which will drag down his rate stats, which are probably his best case. His counting stats leave a bit to be desired, especially for a guy with a career as long as his (he'll need 17-18 seasons to get to the totals people of predicting).
July 18th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
#10/RF (David) said:
Wilhelm, Niekro, Hough, and Wakefield from this '60s list are all knuckleballers.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
@35
Re: Abreu. I agree that Abreu the Phillie was an extremely underrated player. And a somewhat compelling HOF case could be constructed for guys like him. One of just constructed above. (although "you could make a group" logic was debunked by Bill James in his HOF book)
That said, a HOF choice isn't made in a vacuum. What about all the no-brainers that will be on the ballot ahead of him? The BBWAA only has the stomach to induct 2-3 playera a year. Will they ever get around to considering guys in the Abreu class? Assuming they do. What about guys like Larry Walker, Kenny Lofton, Tim Raines, Jim Edmonds and Vladimir Guerrero? Assumming he makes it to the Vets Committee... what about Reggie Smith, Jimmy Wynn and Dwight Evans?
So, although Abreu might already be better than some of the weaker members of the HOF, there's a long line of guys who would need to go in before I'd worry about considering Abreu.
July 18th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
It's kind of forgotten now, but Abreu was correctly regarded as a great player for most of his career in Philadelphia.
The interesting player that I see is Johnny Damon. He's going to be about 400 hits shy of 3000 after this season. He could probably reach 3000 sometime during the 2013 season. He had a very good peak but he was kind of crappy in his first few years at K.C. I was kind of shocked to see his career ops+ was at 105. I would have thought he'd bee about 120 for his career.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
DavidRF,
I completely agree about the "make a group" logic; I'm more of a WAR guy myself. I was just bringing it up because many HOF voters do still seem to take "club" memberships very seriously, and it can often be enough to get a borderline guy elected (Andre Dawson as one of only three guys in the 400-HR/300-SB club is a good recent example). My point was simply that Abreu has a good shot at reaching some milestones that will make his career value easier for traditional voters to appreciate.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Although I think Moyer is little better than a replacement-level pitcher at this point, I'm clinging to his career like grim death. He's the only active player older than I am. 🙂
July 18th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
John Q,
I had the same reaction when I first looked up Damon's numbers after hearing that he was creeping toward 3,000 hits. Just from watching him, he always seemed like a .400 OBP guy, but his career OBP is only .356, he's never been above .382, and most years he's been under .370. That surprised me quite a bit. Even if you ignore his early years, his OBP from '99 onward is only .361. That's still pretty decent, of course, but somewhat underwhelming. I guess because he was scoring well over a hundred runs most years, it seemed like he was on base a lot more than he really was.
Also, while he's had a lot of pretty good years, he hasn't really had many great ones. His best year was 6.6 WAR with KC in '99; every other year he's been under 5.0--including his best years with the Red Sox and Yankees. So it's not like he had a monster peak to compensate for his modest career rates. All in all, he comes out looking good-but-not-great. Probably a little overrated (though not greatly so).
That said, 3,000 hits will get him in pretty easily, especially since he played in Boston and New York. Heck, the visibility he had with those teams might help him make a pretty good run at the Hall even if he falls a bit short of 3,000.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
DavidRF-
I agree. I am not in favor of Abreu for the Hall, conceding how premature this discussion is. I realize there are arguments in his favor that have some merit, but at the end of the day, they fall flat, for some of the reasons you mentioned and many more.
July 18th, 2010 at 10:36 pm
I think Damon is a bit of a goofy case because of how his role as a lead-off man with cloud perceptions. Folks will look at above-average power numbers for a lead-off man, particularly HRs and RBIs, plus a solid average and good base-stealing ability and assume he was an "ideal" lead-off man. He combined the qualities typically associated with lead-off men (namely, speed) with those not often associated (namely, power). Unfortunately, he fails with some more important metrics, particularly OBP, that are obscenely important for lead-off men. If Damon had hit elsewhere in the lineup, as he likely should have, he'd be seen as the good-but-not-great player that he was.
His totals, particularly hits, are inflated by the fact that he hit in the lead-odd spot and typically had more PAs than most guys.
July 21st, 2010 at 7:27 pm
At the beginning of their careers, I sure didn't think Stairs would outlast Grissom, DeShields, and Walker.