Sparky Lyle, Lost Saves, Awards Voting and Semantics
Posted by Raphy on July 16, 2010
Yesterday, Neil discussed the strange definition of the save rule in 1974. One of the major differences between saves in that season and others is that: "The relief pitcher must face the potential tying or winning run at the plate or on base, or pitch effectively for at least three innings, and in either case preserve the lead."
As you would imagine, the requirement to face the potential tying run, greatly diminished the number of saves. Fortunately for us, it is rather easy to figure out these saves using the PI game finder. Pitchers who did not receive saves in a game, but pitched in current save situations are credited with holds. Therefore, we can find missing saves by searching for holds in games which the pitcher finished the game.
Here are the pitchers who missed out the most:
| Rk | Player | Year | #Matching | W | L | GS | CG | SHO | SV | IP | H | ER | HR | BB | SO | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Sparky Lyle | 1974 | 12 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 2.12 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 17.0 | 16 | 4 | 0 | 3 | 18 | 1.12 | |
| 2 | Mike Marshall | 1974 | 8 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 1.26 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 14.1 | 10 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 13 | 0.91 | |
| 3 | Rollie Fingers | 1974 | 8 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 0.00 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9.2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 7 | 0.52 | |
| 4 | Steve Foucault | 1974 | 6 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 1.23 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 7.1 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 0.95 | |
| 5 | Danny Frisella | 1974 | 5 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 1.42 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6.1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 0.47 | |
| 6 | Tom Murphy | 1974 | 4 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 1.59 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5.2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 3 | 0.88 | |
| 7 | Jesus Hernaiz | 1974 | 4 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 1.29 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 7.0 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 0.86 | |
| 8 | Clay Carroll | 1974 | 4 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 0.00 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5.1 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0.75 | |
| 9 | Doug Bird | 1974 | 4 | Ind. Games | 0 | 0 | 0.00 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4.2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0.43 |
Sparky Lyle officially saved 15 games in 1974. However, he pitched much better than that number indicates. In fact, without the rule of '74 Lyle would have been credited with 27 saves.
If you think that this is no big deal, consider the following two seasons:
| Year | Age | Tm | Lg | W | L | G | GS | GF | CG | SHO | SV | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | BK | WP | BF | Awards | |||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1972 | 27 | NYY | AL | 9 | 5 | .643 | 1.92 | 59 | 0 | 56 | 0 | 0 | 35 | 107.2 | 84 | 25 | 23 | 3 | 29 | 7 | 75 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 427 | 154 | 1.050 | 7.0 | 0.3 | 2.4 | 6.3 | 2.59 | CYA-7,MVP-3 |
| 1974 | 29 | NYY | AL | 9 | 3 | .750 | 1.66 | 66 | 0 | 59 | 0 | 0 | 15 | 114.0 | 93 | 30 | 21 | 6 | 43 | 7 | 89 | 1 | 0 | 7 | 469 | 215 | 1.193 | 7.3 | 0.5 | 3.4 | 7.0 | 2.07 | MVP-25 |
In 1972 Lyle pitched for a 4th place club. In 1974 his Yankees finished second. In both seasons he posted similar stats. Yet, in 1972, when he was credited with 35 saves, Lyle finished 3rd in the MVP voting and 7th in Cy Young. In '74 when he had 15 saves, he was 25th in the MVP voting and missing in the Cy Young race. I'm sure there were many factors in the voting those seasons of which I'm not aware. However, I can't help but wonder what 12 extra saves would have done for Lyle.
(h/t dodgerdave whose comment inspired this post)
July 16th, 2010 at 11:20 am
Would like to see how the post-1974 save stats would look like using the 1974 rule...anyone up for doing that research. I'm particularly interested in Thigpen.
July 16th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
I think its interesting that Lyle was given MVP votes but did not recieve a CYA vote. How could a voter think he was the most valueable player without thinking hes the most valuable pitcher
July 16th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Jim, the MVP ballot has 10 spots and the CYA had only three. It looks like Lyle just received a few down-ballot MVP votes. Eight pitchers received more MVP votes, and only seven pitchers received any CYA votes. Moreover, the voters for each award are different.
July 16th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Jim -- The Cy Young Award does not contain the word "valuable." It's true that every pitcher who has won the MVP has also won the CYA (during the CYA era). But there is precedent for a pitcher doing better in the MVP vote than the CYA vote. In 1984, Willie Hernandez won the MVP with 16 of 28 first-place votes (78% MVP share), but in the CYA race he got only 12 of 28 first-place votes (63% CYA share). In 1992, Dennis Eckersley won the MVP and CYA, but with a slightly bigger share of the MVP.
July 16th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
In 1972, Lyle allowed 14 of 52 inherited runners to score. In 1974, he allowed 29 of 76 inherited runners to score.
July 16th, 2010 at 1:33 pm
Johnny, I realized my error right after I posted it, thanks for clarifying.
John Autin - The Cy Young Award is essentially the Most Valuable Pitcher award. Consider these definitions:
1. a Most Valuable Player (MVP) award is an honor typically bestowed upon the best performing player
2. The Cy Young Award is an honor given annually in baseball to the best pitchers in Major League Baseball (MLB)
Given these definitions we can see that they are one in the same. The fact that Eck and Hernandez got more MVP votes than CYA award votes is probably for the same reasons that JT mentioned in the above post.
July 16th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
The ballot sizes are different. MVP ballots contain ten names wherease CYA ballots contain only three.
Lyle finished 25th in the MVP balloting... 9th among pitchers. Only 7 pitchers got CYA votes.
So if a pitcher got MVP votes but never ranked higher than the 4th pitcher on any ballot, then that even if you assume all voters are consistent then that wouldn't translate to any CYA votes.
July 16th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
Poor Jesús Hernaiz. If the current saves rule had been in effect he'd have quintupled his career saves.
July 16th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Giving this one last try {for today, at least}, I would like to see modern save rules applied to tw old-timers, Joe Beggs and Wilcy Moore
July 16th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
This rule didn't seem to effect Mike Marshall much. He still lead the league in saves and was an easy choice as Cy Young. If I had a vote, I would have voted for him as MVP instead of Garvey that year.
My only complaint about the chart at the top of the page is that it would have been nice to include the saves each pitcher recorded that year. Otherwise, nice article. BTW, I like the 1974 rule better than the current one, but that would kill the stat head players and agents.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
I love the complete obscurity of post #8. This is why I love this site/blog...
July 16th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
Kyle - Here's what I came up with for Thigpen (New Rule Saves/Sv Opportunities, Real Life Saves/Sv Opp.)
1986: 5/9, 7/11
1987: 9/12, 16/19
1988: 17/24, 34/43
1989: 15/22, 34/43
1990: 28/33, 57/65
1991: 17/25, 30/39
1992: 17/24, 22/29
1993: 1/4, 1/4
1994: 0/0, 0/0
That gives him 109 saves in 153 opportunities, as opposed to 201/253 in real life. I'm not sure how that compares to other relievers, but now I'm interested.