17 Responses to “Juan Pierre: singles hitter”

1. Jim Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

   His offense is only half the story. He has a speed and a decent glove at centerfield but he has no arm whatsoever. Even the slowest catchers will score from second on a weak single to center.

2. Johnny Twisto Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

   Pierre really didn't hit too much better in Florida than he did in Colorado. He's just not the type of player who was able to take advantage of Coors Field. An interesting example of ability remaining the same, but value (as measured by OPS+) changing.

3. Surly Duff Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 2:24 pm

   His first extra-base hit was a double coming in the White Sox's 38th game of the year. Until then he was hitting .247/.304/.253. Yeah, an OBP of .304 and a SLG of .253. Contemplate that for a while.

   I did contemplate it, and it confused me, because if he only hit singles before then, how could his SLG be any higher than his AVG?

   In fact, Pierre hit a double on May 11 in the teams 33rd game.

   Contemplate that!

4. Andy Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

   Upon contemplation, it would appear I made an error!

5. Jim Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 4:15 pm

   It may also be worth noting that since that double on May 11th he is hitting .353 with a .377 obp and a respectable .451 SLG. Before you scowl at the .451 slugging as being respectable, consider that ichiros career slugging is a mere .434.

   While it is unlikely that pierre will be able to keep pace for the rest of the season, it would easily be his best yet, even with the slow start

6. Gerry Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 6:53 pm

   I think there have been quite a few offensive seasons worse than 640 PA, 68 OPS+. Start with Ernie Johnson, 1922; 673 PA and 57 OPS+. Worse is Roger Metzger, 1972; 715 and 58. Closer to the present, Neifi Perez, 1999; 732 and 62. The 1939 Yankees are in the running for greatest team ever; they did it despite Frankie Crosetti's 743 PA at 66 OPS+. Play Index finds 30 seasons worse than Pierre 2002 on both PA and OPS+.

7. Andy Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 7:00 pm

   Well being among the 31 worst seasons is pretty bad. When I said it was among the worst I meant bottom 5%, so it could rank as 500th worst and still qualify.

8. dukeofflatbush Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

   Worst of all, was Alfredo Griffin's 1984 year where a .248 OBP, a .298 SLG and a 48 OPS+, all led him to his only ALL-STAR appearance. How did this happen?
   American League SSs were pretty deep, with Ripken and Trammel leading the way. The Blue Jays had at least 5 players more deserving than Griffin. I mean the guy walked 4 times in 441 plate appearances.
   His career is no better; of players with at least 7,000 plate appearances, Griffin has the lowest OPS+, with a 67.
   Dismal.

9. dukeofflatbush Says:
   May 25th, 2010 at 7:21 pm

   Also, while playing for the Mets in '85 and '86, Rafael Santana had exactly 1000 plate appearances with a .290 OBP and a .282 SLG. And the Mets won it all in '86. Go figure?

10. David Says:
    May 25th, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    I disagree. Try checking out Andres Thomas' stats for the 1989 Braves. A .228 OBP in 571 PA's?

11. Jeff James Says:
    May 25th, 2010 at 8:49 pm

    Worst offensive season?
    Jim Levey, 1933, hands down (and bat down)

12. DavidRF Says:
    May 25th, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    @11

    Jim Levey! WAR agrees. Scanning for worst seasons by "Rbat", I find:

    1. -58 Jim Levey 1933
    2. -55 Jiggs Parrot 1894
    3. -52 Skeeter Newsom 1936
    4. -50 Tommy Helms 1970
    5. -50 Billy Hunter 1953
    6. -49 Jim Lillie 1886
    7. -47 Ski Melillo 1934
    8. -47 Boze Berger 1938
    9. -47 Jackie Hayes 1937
    10. -45 Jim Levey 1932
    10. -45 Joe Quinn 1893

    I don't know if those are era-adjusted. A lot of high-run context guys on the list. Interesting to see a member of the Big Red Machine on the list. The Reds went to the world series in spite of Helms's awful bat. No matter, they managed to trade him (and Lee May) for Joe Morgan a year later. 🙂

13. DavidRF Says:
    May 25th, 2010 at 10:17 pm

    The worst recent (1990-) seasons are:

    Mike Caruso 1999
    Neifi Perez 2002
    Brian L Hunter 1999
    Neifi Perez 1999
    Cristian Guzman 1999
    Scott Brosius 1997

14. Gerry Says:
    May 26th, 2010 at 1:16 am

    Andy, I'll agree Pierre 2002 was in the bottom 5%, but you're misinterpreting if you read my response as saying it was among the 31 worst. There were 30 seasons worse in *both* PA *and* OPS+; that doesn't count all the seasons that had somewhat fewer PA but a much lower OPS+, nor those seasons with a slightly better OPS+ but a lot more PA. Pick a method for combining PA and OPS+ into a single number, or pick some other overall offense number, and I doubt Pierre is in the bottom 50, quite possibly not even the bottom 100.

15. Jeff James Says:
    May 26th, 2010 at 6:09 am

    In 2004, if you took away EVERY ONE of Barry Bonds hits, his OBP would STILL be greater than hit leader Pierre's OBP.

16. steven Says:
    May 26th, 2010 at 7:36 am

    I thought Dal Maxvill would have been included on a list like this.

17. DavidRF Says:
    May 26th, 2010 at 10:04 am

    Maxvill was bad, but he didn't collect enough plate appearance in his worst seasons to join the inner circle. He played most games, but was regularly pulled for a pinch hitter in 1969-70. Also, as a #8 batter and the pitcher on deck, he had a non-horrible walk rate.