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Playing all 3 outfield positions

Posted by Andy on August 13, 2009

How many guys do you think have played at least 35 games at all 3 outfield positions in a single season?

Surprisingly, it's been done 35 times since 1901.

Here are the 24 such seasons with an OPS+ of at least 100:

  Cnt Player            **OPS+** Year Age Tm  Lg  G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions
+----+-----------------+--------+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+
    1 Stan Musial          200   1948  27 STL NL 155 694 611 135 230 46 18 39 131  79   0  34   3   1   0  18   7  0  .376  .450  .702 1.152 987/3     
    2 Brian Giles          157   2000  29 PIT NL 156 688 559 111 176 37  7 35 123 114  13  69   7   0   8  15   6  0  .315  .432  .594 1.026 879       
    3 Merv Rettenmund      149   1971  28 BAL AL 141 589 491  81 156 23  4 11  75  87   2  60   4   4   3  13  15  6  .318  .422  .448  .870 *978      
    4 Richard Hidalgo      147   2000  25 HOU NL 153 644 558 118 175 42  3 44 122  56   3 110  21   0   9  13  13  6  .314  .391  .636 1.027 *897      
    5 Carl Reynolds        146   1930  27 CHW AL 138 602 563 103 202 25 18 22 104  20   0  39   7  12   0   0  16  4  .359  .388  .584  .972 897       
    6 Shane Mack           140   1991  27 MIN AL 143 489 442  79 137 27  8 18  74  34   1  79   6   2   5  11  13  9  .310  .363  .529  .892 *978      
    7 Max West             136   1939  22 BSN NL 130 513 449  67 128 26  6 19  82  51   0  55   5   8   0   9   1  0  .285  .364  .497  .861 987       
    8 Fred Valentine       131   1966  31 WSA AL 146 578 508  77 140 29  7 16  59  51   1  63  10   6   3  12  22 10  .276  .351  .455  .806 987/3     
    9 Pat Seerey           129   1946  23 CLE AL 117 476 404  57  91 17  2 26  62  65   0 101   1   6   0  12   2  3  .225  .334  .470  .804 987       
   10 Woodie Held          127   1965  33 WSA AL 122 390 332  46  82 16  2 16  54  49   1  74   3   2   4   9   0  0  .247  .345  .452  .797 798/546   
   11 Jim Northrup         121   1971  31 DET AL 136 524 459  72 124 27  2 16  71  60   9  43   2   0   3  14   7  4  .270  .355  .442  .797 *8793     
   12 Milt Byrnes          120   1944  27 SLB AL 128 487 407  63 120 20  4  4  45  68   0  50   0  12   0   8   1  7  .295  .396  .393  .789 879       
   13 Alex Metzler         120   1928  25 CHW AL 139 567 464  71 141 18 14  3  55  77   0  30   6  20   0   0  16  8  .304  .410  .422  .832 798       
   14 Jim Northrup         119   1970  30 DET AL 139 576 504  71 132 21  3 24  80  58   6  68   7   2   5  12   3  6  .262  .343  .458  .801 *987      
   15 Gary Ward            115   1984  30 TEX AL 155 659 602  97 171 21  7 21  79  55   3  95   0   1   1  22   7  5  .284  .343  .447  .790 879/D     
   16 Russ Snyder          112   1962  28 BAL AL 139 443 416  47 127 19  4  9  40  17   0  46   2   7   1   9   7  4  .305  .335  .435  .770 798       
   17 Jim Northrup         111   1967  27 DET AL 144 542 495  63 134 18  6 10  61  43   6  83   3   0   1  15   7  1  .271  .332  .392  .724 *879      
   18 Ralph Garr           107   1976  30 CHW AL 136 558 527  63 158 22  6  4  36  17   2  41   2   8   4   6  14  5  .300  .322  .387  .709 978/D     
   19 Eli Marrero          104   2002  28 STL NL 131 446 397  63 104 19  1 18  66  40  11  72   0   5   4   5  14  2  .262  .327  .451  .778 9278/3    
   20 Cesar Tovar          104   1971  30 MIN AL 157 718 657  94 204 29  3  1  45  45   5  39   3  11   2   5  18 14  .311  .356  .368  .724 *798/54   
   21 Jim Northrup         102   1972  32 DET AL 134 469 426  40 111 15  2  8  42  38   6  47   2   3   0  16   4  7  .261  .324  .362  .686 *978/3    
   22 Endy Chavez          101   2006  28 NYM NL 133 390 353  48 108 22  5  4  42  24   3  44   0  11   2   7  12  3  .306  .348  .431  .779 978       
   23 Chad Curtis          100   1992  23 CAL AL 139 507 441  59 114 16  2 10  46  51   2  71   6   5   4  10  43 18  .259  .341  .372  .713 978       
   24 Jerry Mumphrey       100   1977  24 STL NL 145 512 463  73 133 20 10  2  38  47   6  70   1   1   0   4  22 15  .287  .354  .387  .741 879       

Special kudos to Eli Marrero in particular, who also caught 44 games that year!

Incidentally, lowering the requirement to 30 games at each outfield position increases the list to 77 such seasons. Dropping it further to 25 games at each position produces 148 such seasons. Here are the 29 of those seasons occurring since 2000:

 Cnt Player            **OPS+** Year Age Tm  Lg  G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions
+----+-----------------+--------+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+
    1 Brian Giles          157   2000  29 PIT NL 156 688 559 111 176 37  7 35 123 114  13  69   7   0   8  15   6  0  .315  .432  .594 1.026 879       
    2 Richard Hidalgo      147   2000  25 HOU NL 153 644 558 118 175 42  3 44 122  56   3 110  21   0   9  13  13  6  .314  .391  .636 1.027 *897      
    3 Marlon Byrd          123   2008  30 TEX AL 122 462 403  70 120 28  4 10  53  46   3  62   9   2   2  10   7  2  .298  .380  .462  .842 897/D     
    4 Carl Everett         123   2003  32 TOT AL 147 602 526  93 151 27  3 28  92  53   6  84  15   4   4   7   8  4  .287  .366  .510  .876 *879/D    
    5 Jayson Werth         121   2008  29 PHI NL 134 482 418  73 114 16  3 24  67  57   1 119   4   0   3   2  20  1  .273  .363  .498  .861 *987      
    6 Michael Tucker       121   2000  29 CIN NL 148 323 270  55  72 13  4 15  36  44   1  64   7   0   2   6  13  6  .267  .381  .511  .892 978/4     
    7 Craig Monroe         116   2004  27 DET AL 128 481 447  65 131 27  3 18  72  29   1  79   2   0   3   8   3  4  .293  .337  .488  .825 *798      
    8 Melky Cabrera        108   2009  24 NYY AL 104 358 319  46  90 19  1 11  43  33   4  41   0   3   3  10   5  2  .282  .346  .451  .797 *897      
    9 Jeromy Burnitz       105   2003  34 TOT NL 126 505 464  63 111 22  0 31  77  35   9 112   5   0   1   5   5  4  .239  .299  .487  .786 *798      
   10 Craig Monroe         104   2005  28 DET AL 157 623 567  69 157 30  3 20  89  40   4  95   3   1  12  16   8  3  .277  .322  .446  .768 *978      
   11 Eli Marrero          104   2002  28 STL NL 131 446 397  63 104 19  1 18  66  40  11  72   0   5   4   5  14  2  .262  .327  .451  .778 9278/3    
   12 Skip Schumaker       102   2008  28 STL NL 153 594 540  87 163 22  5  8  46  47   2  60   2   4   1  19   8  2  .302  .359  .406  .765 *879      
   13 Endy Chavez          101   2006  28 NYM NL 133 390 353  48 108 22  5  4  42  24   3  44   0  11   2   7  12  3  .306  .348  .431  .779 978       
   14 Danny Bautista       100   2000  28 TOT NL 131 388 351  54 100 20  7 11  59  25   4  50   3   4   5  11   6  2  .285  .333  .476  .809 *978      
   15 Terrence Long         97   2001  25 OAK AL 162 687 629  90 178 37  4 12  85  52   8 103   0   0   6  17   9  3  .283  .335  .412  .747 879       
   16 Reggie Willits        96   2007  26 LAA AL 136 518 430  74 126 20  1  0  34  69   2  83   3  11   5   7  27  8  .293  .391  .344  .735 798D      
   17 Jay Payton            95   2005  32 TOT AL 124 435 408  62 109 16  1 18  63  24   2  47   0   0   3   8   0  1  .267  .306  .444  .750 789       
   18 So Taguchi            95   2004  34 STL NL 109 206 179  26  52 10  2  3  25  12   1  23   2  10   3   6   6  3  .291  .337  .419  .756 789       
   19 Jay Payton            94   2006  33 OAK AL 142 588 557  78 165 32  3 10  59  22   1  52   4   0   5  12   8  4  .296  .325  .418  .743 789/D     
   20 So Taguchi            91   2005  35 STL NL 143 424 396  45 114 21  2  8  53  20   2  62   2   2   4  11  11  2  .288  .322  .412  .734 978       
   21 Tsuyoshi Shinjo       90   2001  29 NYM NL 123 438 400  46 107 23  1 10  56  25   3  70   7   4   2   8   4  5  .268  .320  .405  .725 879       
   22 Eric Owens            90   2000  29 SDP NL 145 636 583  87 171 19  7  6  51  45   4  63   4   0   4  16  29 14  .293  .346  .381  .727 978/4     
   23 Jayson Werth          89   2005  26 LAD NL 102 395 337  46  79 22  2  7  43  48   2 114   6   1   3  10  11  2  .234  .338  .374  .712 *798      
   24 Michael Tucker        89   2001  30 TOT NL 149 500 436  62 110 19  8 12  61  46   4 102   2  10   6   8  16  8  .252  .322  .415  .737 *8*79/3   
   25 Jacoby Ellsbury       87   2008  24 BOS AL 145 609 554  98 155 22  7  9  47  41   2  80   7   4   3   9  50 11  .280  .336  .394  .730 879       
+----+-----------------+--------+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+
  Cnt Player            **OPS+** Year Age Tm  Lg  G   PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions
+----+-----------------+--------+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+
   26 Gary Matthews         82   2003  28 TOT ML 144 513 468  71 116 31  2  6  42  43   0  95   2   0   0   8  12  8  .248  .314  .361  .675 *897      
   27 Reed Johnson          79   2004  27 TOR AL 141 582 537  68 145 25  2 10  61  28   2  98  12   3   2  17   6  3  .270  .320  .380  .700 798/D     
   28 Gary Matthews         77   2008  33 LAA AL 127 477 426  53 103 19  3  8  46  45   2  95   4   0   2  12   8  3  .242  .319  .357  .676 978D      
   29 Raul Gonzalez         72   2003  29 NYM NL 107 246 217  28  50 12  2  2  21  27   1  34   1   0   1   8   3  0  .230  .317  .332  .649 798       

Several players did it last year, including Marlon Byrd and Jayson Werth.

17 Responses to “Playing all 3 outfield positions”

  1. Willie Says:

    What does OPS+ have to do with it?

  2. Jgeller Says:

    Helps to sort out the 4th and 5th outfielders who are just defensive replacements i'd assume.

  3. Andy Says:

    Yeah, my point was to put guys close to the top of the list that were producing offensively and not just coming in as subs.

    In part, this post was inspired by Alex Rios, who has played a good amount of CF in addition to RF. That kind of versatility is pretty darn useful and certainly adds to his value as a player. (Of course, the stats suggest that he's not a very good defensive CF, but at least he can play there at all.)

  4. Yankeefan25 Says:

    I don't get why OPS have to do with anything?

  5. JohnnyTwisto Says:

    Go back to sleep, Yankeefan.

  6. tomepp Says:

    Yankeefan25: As Andy explained (but maybe I can clarify), OPS+ was not used as part of the selection criteria to put players on the list - the players just had to have the requisite number of games played at all three outfield positions. The list was sorted by OPS+ afterwards simply to put the more "interesting" players at the top of the list. This way the Jayson Werth or Melky Cabrera-type regulars who play all three outfield positions on a frequent basis bubble up to the top of the list, while the guys who are predominantly late-inning defensive replacements (the Reed Johnson or Jeremy Reed-type players) drop to the bottom. If you sorted the list by, say, OFGP then you'd have to search the list pretty carefully to find the "good" players. The OPS+ cutoff of >=100 was used on the first list to shorten it for posting and cut out those defensive-replacement-type players. (Though, frankly, since there were only 11 more entries, I would think it okay to post the entire list. Lists of 50 or 100 guys are excessive in a post, but 35 would be okay IMHO.)

  7. David in Toledo Says:

    Woodie Held (#10 on the top list) is the only player to have played 100 career games at the six positions of 2b, ss, 3b, lf, cf, and rf.

  8. JDV Says:

    From the list, only Brian Giles (2000) had at least 35 starts at each outfield position...since 1954 anyway. A few others (Ward, Garr, Tovar and Curtis) had at least 30 at each. Most of the rest got their numbers as late-inning replacements.

  9. jksesq1 Says:

    Neat report, thank you. I like the idea of ranking them by offensive output.

    However, OPS+ is a lousy, misleading, and wrong statistic and your table provides the perfect segue into my rant 🙂

    Why should Richard Hidalgo be penalized for playing in a "Batter's Park" when he doesn't benefit from it? In 2000, Enron Field's PF was 108/108, yet Hidalgo hit worse there. His Home OPS was 1.008 while his Road OPS was 1.046. In fact, in three of the five seasons in which he played in Enron/MinuteMaid, Hidalgo hit better, often significantly better, in road parks. So you could argue that while the average Houston hitter benefited from playing at Enron -- in fact, the team Split in 2000 was .872/.804 -- Hidalgo was not the average hitter and in fact Enron/MinuteMaid was a Pitcher's Park to him. He shouldn't be penalized for playing there, and if anything, he should be GIVEN handicap points for having played 81 games there.

    Contract Brian Giles, who, despite playing in a neutral- to Pitcher's Park in 2000 (Three Rivers, 98/99), had an OPS 52 points higher at home that away. In fact, Giles' OPS in Three Rivers for his career is 1.089, compared to .902 overall. For him, Three Rivers was a Batter's Park.

    So in summary, OPS+ ranks Hidalgo's 2000 below Giles' 2000, on the theory that Hidalgo was helped by playing in a Batter's Park, when a closer examination of the Splits shows that this may not be the case at all.

    If I were running B-R I would throw out every stat that incorporates summary ballpark data as it is simply not indicative of the many styles of hitters, who ballparks affect in different ways and to differing extents.

  10. Andy Says:

    And what did Hidalgo do in the 2 seasons where he DIDN'T hit worse at home? Your argument makes very little sense to me. I'm not suggesting OPS+ is a perfect metric, just like any stat isn't perfect, but it's one of the better ones we have.

  11. jksesq1 Says:

    Andy,

    Let's say a team is in a neutral park (BPF=100) and let's say its plate appearances are evenly split between RH and LH batters (50% of its PA's from each side). Now let's say it has a short RF porch and a deep left field, and as a result lefties hit 80 points higher at home, and righties hit 80 points higher on the road. ***This is anything but a neutral park.*** It's a Hitter's Park for LH batters, and their stats should be downgraded for playing half their games there; but it's a Pitcher's Park for RH batters, and their stats should be upgraded.

    This is a gross oversimplification, of course, but I don't see how you can say it doesn't make sense. Parks affect different batters in different ways depending on righty/lefty, power/control, line drive/fly ball, etc.

    How about Todd Helton and Brad Hawpe. Todd Helton is a mediocre major league power hitter away from home (over 162 games, .295-22-87) while at Coors he is basically Lou Gehrig (.361-35-128). His OPS is a staggering 218 points better at home than on the road. Brad Hawpe on the other hand gets only a 32-point OPS bump at home; he's .293-23-106 at home, and .282-24-86 on the road. Yet both Helton and Hawpe are judged by the same 107 BPF. Anyone relying on BPF to tell them about an individual's performance would tend to overrate Helton, whose BPF should be much higher (130? maybe higher?) and underrate Hawpe whose stats really don't benefit much from Coors park effects at all.

    BPF is an interesting little summary stat for making generalizations about a ballpark, but it shouldn't be given any weight at all to individuals' statistics.

  12. JohnnyTwisto Says:

    Jkesq, I agree with some of your points but not with others.

    Think of OPS+ as measuring _value_, rather than _ability_. In 2000, a run was not worth as much in Enron as in the average park, because it took more runs to win a game there. Regardless whether Hidalgo was helped or hurt by Enron, his 1000 OPS there was not worth as much as a 1000 OPS in an average park. (And just because a player has a worse OPS in a hitter's park doesn't necessarily mean the park hurts him. It It's possible, for whatever reasons, he'd do even worse in a tougher home park. It could just be a small sample size.) If an average player would OPS .850 in Enron, Hidalgo is not as much of an offensive plus there as he would be putting up a 1000 OPS in a place where the average player has a .750. OPS+ is simply attempting to compare a player's OPS to what the average player would do in the same environment. Nothing more.

    Max Carey made the HOF by being a slap-hitting speedster in the deadball era. He was a valuable player at that time. But his skills are not as valuable now. If he played now, maybe he'd be Juan Pierre. Exact same ability, but less value. The points you bring up about how certain players take advantage of certain parks are very valid, and should absolutely be considered when building a team. But at the end of the day, what we (usually) care about is value. How many runs (and by extension, how many wins) did he produce or prevent?

    However, even if you should apply the same park factor to everyone from a _value_ standpoint, that doesn't mean the park factors are not flawed. In fact, I think they can be considered very questionable these days, with unbalanced schedules, interleague play, new parks opening every couple years. Park factors are all relative. In theory, an extreme hitter's park could become considered an extreme pitcher's park, without any changes to its dimensions/wind currents/etc, simply by virtue of changes to all the other parks to which it is being compared. We can't really be sure if a park with a PF of 110 in the NL West is more of a hitter's park than one with a 105 in the NL East, because the teams played very different schedules. And as you correctly point out, a team can change its own PF simply by being a good fit for that particular park.

    As far Helton and Hawpe, a great deal of that discrepancy must be because Hawpe has spent his career in the humidor era, while Helton's best seasons were when Coors was the highest scoring park ever.

  13. Andy Says:

    Truly an EXCELLENT commentary, Johnny.

  14. jksesq1 Says:

    Yes, definitely some good points, Johnny, but it still doesn't follow that Giles' 2000 season should be ranked ahead of Hidalgo's. Hidalgo not only had a higher absolute OPS -- OK, only by .001, but still 🙂 -- he was also hampered by playing half his games in a park where he did not hit particularly well. Giles was helped by playing half his games in a park where he hit very well. The fact that the average MLB'er (whatever that is) would rather have hit in Enron than 3 Rivers in 2000 is irrelevant to the analysis of those two players. Ignoring interleague play (I wish), if you randomly redistributed their 2000 AB's among the NL parks, Hidalgo's stats would have been equal or marginally better.

    Here's another example: in 2008, Youkilis, Pedroia, Ramirez and Lowell, all righties with power, all hit better away from Fenway than at home. Sure, it could just be an outlier year (I haven't checked) but if that held true for several years back, it might lead me to conclude that Fenway is a Pitcher's Park for RH power hitters. Too bad for them that OPS+, and his cousins OWP and Win Shares, are going to penalize them for playing in a Pitcher's Park.

    I always thought it might be neat to take out a player's home PA's, divide them by 13 in the AL or 15 in the NL, then add them to the player's road stats to get a kind of park-neutral-for-that-player statsheet. Of course when you start taking into account unbalanced intraleague schedules and (ugh) interleague play it becomes quite complicated to do right. But I always thought it would be an interesting study.

    Anyway, I certainly didn't mean to offend, Andy, although I do not care for BPF and OPS+, I thought your article was great.

  15. Andy Says:

    Absolutely no offense taken--I don't agree with all of your arguments but they are certainly reasonable and well-stated. I think we can all agree that in any statistical system, there are going to be aberrations, and perhaps the Giles/Hidalgo one is a real one. (I do agree with the general notion that Giles is overrated by fans.)

  16. jksesq1 Says:

    Sorry, should learn to proofread. Obviously, I meant to say, it's too bad that OPS+ will penalize Manny, Lowell, Youkilis and Pedroia for playing in a HITTER'S PARK in 2008. (Multiyear 108/106, single year 105/103).

    Oh yeah, another RH power hitter named A. Rodriguez has an OPS of "only" .881 in Fenway. Sheffield and Guerrero, also below their career averages. Nomar hit for a great average with a lot of doubles, but hit most of his homers away from Fenway.

    Anyway, on this particular rant, "peace and out". Thanks again Andy and Johnny for the dialogue.

  17. JohnnyTwisto Says:

    But it's silly to say that Hidalgo was "hampered" by Enron, simply because he hit slightly worse there one season than on the road. He played 4 full seasons in Enron. My quick & dirty calculation shows he had a home OPS of 905 and a road OPS of .887 over that time. He had no trouble hitting there. You want to credit him simply for hitting worse than expected; that isn't logical. There's no reason to think his 2000 road performance, all of 78 games, is his true talent. You might as well credit him for only having an OPS of .881 in June, since he must have been hampered by the warming weather or something.

    And it's not irrelevant at all how the average player would have done in those parks. It may not answer a specific question you are asking, but it's a highly relevant issue. These guys don't play in a vacuum. All performance is relative. Doing better than average is how you field a winning team.

    Andy, thanks. But Giles overrated? The guy has barely ever been talked about. Between being buried in Cleveland, then spending his prime on terrible Pittsburgh teams, and finally trying to pad his career numbers in the terrible hitting environment of San Diego, what could have been a borderline HOF career has been pretty overlooked and will be mostly forgotten.