Playing all 3 outfield positions
Posted by Andy on August 13, 2009
How many guys do you think have played at least 35 games at all 3 outfield positions in a single season?
Surprisingly, it's been done 35 times since 1901.
Here are the 24 such seasons with an OPS+ of at least 100:
Cnt Player **OPS+** Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Positions +----+-----------------+--------+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+ 1 Stan Musial 200 1948 27 STL NL 155 694 611 135 230 46 18 39 131 79 0 34 3 1 0 18 7 0 .376 .450 .702 1.152 987/3 2 Brian Giles 157 2000 29 PIT NL 156 688 559 111 176 37 7 35 123 114 13 69 7 0 8 15 6 0 .315 .432 .594 1.026 879 3 Merv Rettenmund 149 1971 28 BAL AL 141 589 491 81 156 23 4 11 75 87 2 60 4 4 3 13 15 6 .318 .422 .448 .870 *978 4 Richard Hidalgo 147 2000 25 HOU NL 153 644 558 118 175 42 3 44 122 56 3 110 21 0 9 13 13 6 .314 .391 .636 1.027 *897 5 Carl Reynolds 146 1930 27 CHW AL 138 602 563 103 202 25 18 22 104 20 0 39 7 12 0 0 16 4 .359 .388 .584 .972 897 6 Shane Mack 140 1991 27 MIN AL 143 489 442 79 137 27 8 18 74 34 1 79 6 2 5 11 13 9 .310 .363 .529 .892 *978 7 Max West 136 1939 22 BSN NL 130 513 449 67 128 26 6 19 82 51 0 55 5 8 0 9 1 0 .285 .364 .497 .861 987 8 Fred Valentine 131 1966 31 WSA AL 146 578 508 77 140 29 7 16 59 51 1 63 10 6 3 12 22 10 .276 .351 .455 .806 987/3 9 Pat Seerey 129 1946 23 CLE AL 117 476 404 57 91 17 2 26 62 65 0 101 1 6 0 12 2 3 .225 .334 .470 .804 987 10 Woodie Held 127 1965 33 WSA AL 122 390 332 46 82 16 2 16 54 49 1 74 3 2 4 9 0 0 .247 .345 .452 .797 798/546 11 Jim Northrup 121 1971 31 DET AL 136 524 459 72 124 27 2 16 71 60 9 43 2 0 3 14 7 4 .270 .355 .442 .797 *8793 12 Milt Byrnes 120 1944 27 SLB AL 128 487 407 63 120 20 4 4 45 68 0 50 0 12 0 8 1 7 .295 .396 .393 .789 879 13 Alex Metzler 120 1928 25 CHW AL 139 567 464 71 141 18 14 3 55 77 0 30 6 20 0 0 16 8 .304 .410 .422 .832 798 14 Jim Northrup 119 1970 30 DET AL 139 576 504 71 132 21 3 24 80 58 6 68 7 2 5 12 3 6 .262 .343 .458 .801 *987 15 Gary Ward 115 1984 30 TEX AL 155 659 602 97 171 21 7 21 79 55 3 95 0 1 1 22 7 5 .284 .343 .447 .790 879/D 16 Russ Snyder 112 1962 28 BAL AL 139 443 416 47 127 19 4 9 40 17 0 46 2 7 1 9 7 4 .305 .335 .435 .770 798 17 Jim Northrup 111 1967 27 DET AL 144 542 495 63 134 18 6 10 61 43 6 83 3 0 1 15 7 1 .271 .332 .392 .724 *879 18 Ralph Garr 107 1976 30 CHW AL 136 558 527 63 158 22 6 4 36 17 2 41 2 8 4 6 14 5 .300 .322 .387 .709 978/D 19 Eli Marrero 104 2002 28 STL NL 131 446 397 63 104 19 1 18 66 40 11 72 0 5 4 5 14 2 .262 .327 .451 .778 9278/3 20 Cesar Tovar 104 1971 30 MIN AL 157 718 657 94 204 29 3 1 45 45 5 39 3 11 2 5 18 14 .311 .356 .368 .724 *798/54 21 Jim Northrup 102 1972 32 DET AL 134 469 426 40 111 15 2 8 42 38 6 47 2 3 0 16 4 7 .261 .324 .362 .686 *978/3 22 Endy Chavez 101 2006 28 NYM NL 133 390 353 48 108 22 5 4 42 24 3 44 0 11 2 7 12 3 .306 .348 .431 .779 978 23 Chad Curtis 100 1992 23 CAL AL 139 507 441 59 114 16 2 10 46 51 2 71 6 5 4 10 43 18 .259 .341 .372 .713 978 24 Jerry Mumphrey 100 1977 24 STL NL 145 512 463 73 133 20 10 2 38 47 6 70 1 1 0 4 22 15 .287 .354 .387 .741 879
Special kudos to Eli Marrero in particular, who also caught 44 games that year!
Incidentally, lowering the requirement to 30 games at each outfield position increases the list to 77 such seasons. Dropping it further to 25 games at each position produces 148 such seasons. Here are the 29 of those seasons occurring since 2000:
Cnt Player **OPS+** Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Positions +----+-----------------+--------+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+ 1 Brian Giles 157 2000 29 PIT NL 156 688 559 111 176 37 7 35 123 114 13 69 7 0 8 15 6 0 .315 .432 .594 1.026 879 2 Richard Hidalgo 147 2000 25 HOU NL 153 644 558 118 175 42 3 44 122 56 3 110 21 0 9 13 13 6 .314 .391 .636 1.027 *897 3 Marlon Byrd 123 2008 30 TEX AL 122 462 403 70 120 28 4 10 53 46 3 62 9 2 2 10 7 2 .298 .380 .462 .842 897/D 4 Carl Everett 123 2003 32 TOT AL 147 602 526 93 151 27 3 28 92 53 6 84 15 4 4 7 8 4 .287 .366 .510 .876 *879/D 5 Jayson Werth 121 2008 29 PHI NL 134 482 418 73 114 16 3 24 67 57 1 119 4 0 3 2 20 1 .273 .363 .498 .861 *987 6 Michael Tucker 121 2000 29 CIN NL 148 323 270 55 72 13 4 15 36 44 1 64 7 0 2 6 13 6 .267 .381 .511 .892 978/4 7 Craig Monroe 116 2004 27 DET AL 128 481 447 65 131 27 3 18 72 29 1 79 2 0 3 8 3 4 .293 .337 .488 .825 *798 8 Melky Cabrera 108 2009 24 NYY AL 104 358 319 46 90 19 1 11 43 33 4 41 0 3 3 10 5 2 .282 .346 .451 .797 *897 9 Jeromy Burnitz 105 2003 34 TOT NL 126 505 464 63 111 22 0 31 77 35 9 112 5 0 1 5 5 4 .239 .299 .487 .786 *798 10 Craig Monroe 104 2005 28 DET AL 157 623 567 69 157 30 3 20 89 40 4 95 3 1 12 16 8 3 .277 .322 .446 .768 *978 11 Eli Marrero 104 2002 28 STL NL 131 446 397 63 104 19 1 18 66 40 11 72 0 5 4 5 14 2 .262 .327 .451 .778 9278/3 12 Skip Schumaker 102 2008 28 STL NL 153 594 540 87 163 22 5 8 46 47 2 60 2 4 1 19 8 2 .302 .359 .406 .765 *879 13 Endy Chavez 101 2006 28 NYM NL 133 390 353 48 108 22 5 4 42 24 3 44 0 11 2 7 12 3 .306 .348 .431 .779 978 14 Danny Bautista 100 2000 28 TOT NL 131 388 351 54 100 20 7 11 59 25 4 50 3 4 5 11 6 2 .285 .333 .476 .809 *978 15 Terrence Long 97 2001 25 OAK AL 162 687 629 90 178 37 4 12 85 52 8 103 0 0 6 17 9 3 .283 .335 .412 .747 879 16 Reggie Willits 96 2007 26 LAA AL 136 518 430 74 126 20 1 0 34 69 2 83 3 11 5 7 27 8 .293 .391 .344 .735 798D 17 Jay Payton 95 2005 32 TOT AL 124 435 408 62 109 16 1 18 63 24 2 47 0 0 3 8 0 1 .267 .306 .444 .750 789 18 So Taguchi 95 2004 34 STL NL 109 206 179 26 52 10 2 3 25 12 1 23 2 10 3 6 6 3 .291 .337 .419 .756 789 19 Jay Payton 94 2006 33 OAK AL 142 588 557 78 165 32 3 10 59 22 1 52 4 0 5 12 8 4 .296 .325 .418 .743 789/D 20 So Taguchi 91 2005 35 STL NL 143 424 396 45 114 21 2 8 53 20 2 62 2 2 4 11 11 2 .288 .322 .412 .734 978 21 Tsuyoshi Shinjo 90 2001 29 NYM NL 123 438 400 46 107 23 1 10 56 25 3 70 7 4 2 8 4 5 .268 .320 .405 .725 879 22 Eric Owens 90 2000 29 SDP NL 145 636 583 87 171 19 7 6 51 45 4 63 4 0 4 16 29 14 .293 .346 .381 .727 978/4 23 Jayson Werth 89 2005 26 LAD NL 102 395 337 46 79 22 2 7 43 48 2 114 6 1 3 10 11 2 .234 .338 .374 .712 *798 24 Michael Tucker 89 2001 30 TOT NL 149 500 436 62 110 19 8 12 61 46 4 102 2 10 6 8 16 8 .252 .322 .415 .737 *8*79/3 25 Jacoby Ellsbury 87 2008 24 BOS AL 145 609 554 98 155 22 7 9 47 41 2 80 7 4 3 9 50 11 .280 .336 .394 .730 879 +----+-----------------+--------+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+ Cnt Player **OPS+** Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Positions +----+-----------------+--------+----+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+ 26 Gary Matthews 82 2003 28 TOT ML 144 513 468 71 116 31 2 6 42 43 0 95 2 0 0 8 12 8 .248 .314 .361 .675 *897 27 Reed Johnson 79 2004 27 TOR AL 141 582 537 68 145 25 2 10 61 28 2 98 12 3 2 17 6 3 .270 .320 .380 .700 798/D 28 Gary Matthews 77 2008 33 LAA AL 127 477 426 53 103 19 3 8 46 45 2 95 4 0 2 12 8 3 .242 .319 .357 .676 978D 29 Raul Gonzalez 72 2003 29 NYM NL 107 246 217 28 50 12 2 2 21 27 1 34 1 0 1 8 3 0 .230 .317 .332 .649 798
Several players did it last year, including Marlon Byrd and Jayson Werth.
August 13th, 2009 at 8:50 am
What does OPS+ have to do with it?
August 13th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Helps to sort out the 4th and 5th outfielders who are just defensive replacements i'd assume.
August 13th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Yeah, my point was to put guys close to the top of the list that were producing offensively and not just coming in as subs.
In part, this post was inspired by Alex Rios, who has played a good amount of CF in addition to RF. That kind of versatility is pretty darn useful and certainly adds to his value as a player. (Of course, the stats suggest that he's not a very good defensive CF, but at least he can play there at all.)
August 13th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
I don't get why OPS have to do with anything?
August 13th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Go back to sleep, Yankeefan.
August 14th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Yankeefan25: As Andy explained (but maybe I can clarify), OPS+ was not used as part of the selection criteria to put players on the list - the players just had to have the requisite number of games played at all three outfield positions. The list was sorted by OPS+ afterwards simply to put the more "interesting" players at the top of the list. This way the Jayson Werth or Melky Cabrera-type regulars who play all three outfield positions on a frequent basis bubble up to the top of the list, while the guys who are predominantly late-inning defensive replacements (the Reed Johnson or Jeremy Reed-type players) drop to the bottom. If you sorted the list by, say, OFGP then you'd have to search the list pretty carefully to find the "good" players. The OPS+ cutoff of >=100 was used on the first list to shorten it for posting and cut out those defensive-replacement-type players. (Though, frankly, since there were only 11 more entries, I would think it okay to post the entire list. Lists of 50 or 100 guys are excessive in a post, but 35 would be okay IMHO.)
August 14th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Woodie Held (#10 on the top list) is the only player to have played 100 career games at the six positions of 2b, ss, 3b, lf, cf, and rf.
August 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
From the list, only Brian Giles (2000) had at least 35 starts at each outfield position...since 1954 anyway. A few others (Ward, Garr, Tovar and Curtis) had at least 30 at each. Most of the rest got their numbers as late-inning replacements.
August 14th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Neat report, thank you. I like the idea of ranking them by offensive output.
However, OPS+ is a lousy, misleading, and wrong statistic and your table provides the perfect segue into my rant 🙂
Why should Richard Hidalgo be penalized for playing in a "Batter's Park" when he doesn't benefit from it? In 2000, Enron Field's PF was 108/108, yet Hidalgo hit worse there. His Home OPS was 1.008 while his Road OPS was 1.046. In fact, in three of the five seasons in which he played in Enron/MinuteMaid, Hidalgo hit better, often significantly better, in road parks. So you could argue that while the average Houston hitter benefited from playing at Enron -- in fact, the team Split in 2000 was .872/.804 -- Hidalgo was not the average hitter and in fact Enron/MinuteMaid was a Pitcher's Park to him. He shouldn't be penalized for playing there, and if anything, he should be GIVEN handicap points for having played 81 games there.
Contract Brian Giles, who, despite playing in a neutral- to Pitcher's Park in 2000 (Three Rivers, 98/99), had an OPS 52 points higher at home that away. In fact, Giles' OPS in Three Rivers for his career is 1.089, compared to .902 overall. For him, Three Rivers was a Batter's Park.
So in summary, OPS+ ranks Hidalgo's 2000 below Giles' 2000, on the theory that Hidalgo was helped by playing in a Batter's Park, when a closer examination of the Splits shows that this may not be the case at all.
If I were running B-R I would throw out every stat that incorporates summary ballpark data as it is simply not indicative of the many styles of hitters, who ballparks affect in different ways and to differing extents.
August 14th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
And what did Hidalgo do in the 2 seasons where he DIDN'T hit worse at home? Your argument makes very little sense to me. I'm not suggesting OPS+ is a perfect metric, just like any stat isn't perfect, but it's one of the better ones we have.
August 14th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
Andy,
Let's say a team is in a neutral park (BPF=100) and let's say its plate appearances are evenly split between RH and LH batters (50% of its PA's from each side). Now let's say it has a short RF porch and a deep left field, and as a result lefties hit 80 points higher at home, and righties hit 80 points higher on the road. ***This is anything but a neutral park.*** It's a Hitter's Park for LH batters, and their stats should be downgraded for playing half their games there; but it's a Pitcher's Park for RH batters, and their stats should be upgraded.
This is a gross oversimplification, of course, but I don't see how you can say it doesn't make sense. Parks affect different batters in different ways depending on righty/lefty, power/control, line drive/fly ball, etc.
How about Todd Helton and Brad Hawpe. Todd Helton is a mediocre major league power hitter away from home (over 162 games, .295-22-87) while at Coors he is basically Lou Gehrig (.361-35-128). His OPS is a staggering 218 points better at home than on the road. Brad Hawpe on the other hand gets only a 32-point OPS bump at home; he's .293-23-106 at home, and .282-24-86 on the road. Yet both Helton and Hawpe are judged by the same 107 BPF. Anyone relying on BPF to tell them about an individual's performance would tend to overrate Helton, whose BPF should be much higher (130? maybe higher?) and underrate Hawpe whose stats really don't benefit much from Coors park effects at all.
BPF is an interesting little summary stat for making generalizations about a ballpark, but it shouldn't be given any weight at all to individuals' statistics.
August 14th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
Jkesq, I agree with some of your points but not with others.
Think of OPS+ as measuring _value_, rather than _ability_. In 2000, a run was not worth as much in Enron as in the average park, because it took more runs to win a game there. Regardless whether Hidalgo was helped or hurt by Enron, his 1000 OPS there was not worth as much as a 1000 OPS in an average park. (And just because a player has a worse OPS in a hitter's park doesn't necessarily mean the park hurts him. It It's possible, for whatever reasons, he'd do even worse in a tougher home park. It could just be a small sample size.) If an average player would OPS .850 in Enron, Hidalgo is not as much of an offensive plus there as he would be putting up a 1000 OPS in a place where the average player has a .750. OPS+ is simply attempting to compare a player's OPS to what the average player would do in the same environment. Nothing more.
Max Carey made the HOF by being a slap-hitting speedster in the deadball era. He was a valuable player at that time. But his skills are not as valuable now. If he played now, maybe he'd be Juan Pierre. Exact same ability, but less value. The points you bring up about how certain players take advantage of certain parks are very valid, and should absolutely be considered when building a team. But at the end of the day, what we (usually) care about is value. How many runs (and by extension, how many wins) did he produce or prevent?
However, even if you should apply the same park factor to everyone from a _value_ standpoint, that doesn't mean the park factors are not flawed. In fact, I think they can be considered very questionable these days, with unbalanced schedules, interleague play, new parks opening every couple years. Park factors are all relative. In theory, an extreme hitter's park could become considered an extreme pitcher's park, without any changes to its dimensions/wind currents/etc, simply by virtue of changes to all the other parks to which it is being compared. We can't really be sure if a park with a PF of 110 in the NL West is more of a hitter's park than one with a 105 in the NL East, because the teams played very different schedules. And as you correctly point out, a team can change its own PF simply by being a good fit for that particular park.
As far Helton and Hawpe, a great deal of that discrepancy must be because Hawpe has spent his career in the humidor era, while Helton's best seasons were when Coors was the highest scoring park ever.
August 14th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Truly an EXCELLENT commentary, Johnny.
August 14th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Yes, definitely some good points, Johnny, but it still doesn't follow that Giles' 2000 season should be ranked ahead of Hidalgo's. Hidalgo not only had a higher absolute OPS -- OK, only by .001, but still 🙂 -- he was also hampered by playing half his games in a park where he did not hit particularly well. Giles was helped by playing half his games in a park where he hit very well. The fact that the average MLB'er (whatever that is) would rather have hit in Enron than 3 Rivers in 2000 is irrelevant to the analysis of those two players. Ignoring interleague play (I wish), if you randomly redistributed their 2000 AB's among the NL parks, Hidalgo's stats would have been equal or marginally better.
Here's another example: in 2008, Youkilis, Pedroia, Ramirez and Lowell, all righties with power, all hit better away from Fenway than at home. Sure, it could just be an outlier year (I haven't checked) but if that held true for several years back, it might lead me to conclude that Fenway is a Pitcher's Park for RH power hitters. Too bad for them that OPS+, and his cousins OWP and Win Shares, are going to penalize them for playing in a Pitcher's Park.
I always thought it might be neat to take out a player's home PA's, divide them by 13 in the AL or 15 in the NL, then add them to the player's road stats to get a kind of park-neutral-for-that-player statsheet. Of course when you start taking into account unbalanced intraleague schedules and (ugh) interleague play it becomes quite complicated to do right. But I always thought it would be an interesting study.
Anyway, I certainly didn't mean to offend, Andy, although I do not care for BPF and OPS+, I thought your article was great.
August 14th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Absolutely no offense taken--I don't agree with all of your arguments but they are certainly reasonable and well-stated. I think we can all agree that in any statistical system, there are going to be aberrations, and perhaps the Giles/Hidalgo one is a real one. (I do agree with the general notion that Giles is overrated by fans.)
August 14th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Sorry, should learn to proofread. Obviously, I meant to say, it's too bad that OPS+ will penalize Manny, Lowell, Youkilis and Pedroia for playing in a HITTER'S PARK in 2008. (Multiyear 108/106, single year 105/103).
Oh yeah, another RH power hitter named A. Rodriguez has an OPS of "only" .881 in Fenway. Sheffield and Guerrero, also below their career averages. Nomar hit for a great average with a lot of doubles, but hit most of his homers away from Fenway.
Anyway, on this particular rant, "peace and out". Thanks again Andy and Johnny for the dialogue.
August 15th, 2009 at 12:39 am
But it's silly to say that Hidalgo was "hampered" by Enron, simply because he hit slightly worse there one season than on the road. He played 4 full seasons in Enron. My quick & dirty calculation shows he had a home OPS of 905 and a road OPS of .887 over that time. He had no trouble hitting there. You want to credit him simply for hitting worse than expected; that isn't logical. There's no reason to think his 2000 road performance, all of 78 games, is his true talent. You might as well credit him for only having an OPS of .881 in June, since he must have been hampered by the warming weather or something.
And it's not irrelevant at all how the average player would have done in those parks. It may not answer a specific question you are asking, but it's a highly relevant issue. These guys don't play in a vacuum. All performance is relative. Doing better than average is how you field a winning team.
Andy, thanks. But Giles overrated? The guy has barely ever been talked about. Between being buried in Cleveland, then spending his prime on terrible Pittsburgh teams, and finally trying to pad his career numbers in the terrible hitting environment of San Diego, what could have been a borderline HOF career has been pretty overlooked and will be mostly forgotten.