Teams Developing Young Winning Pitchers
Posted by Steve Lombardi on August 11, 2011
Today's list from me: Since 1901, teams with the most pitchers who won 30+ games through and including their "Age 24 season."
| Rk | Lg | Tm | #Matching | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 22 | Rex Barney / Chad Billingsley / Ralph Branca / Don Drysdale / Carl Erskine / Hal Gregg / Oscar Jones / Clayton Kershaw / Sandy Koufax / Billy Loes / Vic Lombardi / Ramon Martinez / Van Mungo / Don Newcombe / Johnny Podres / Rick Rhoden / Nap Rucker / Don Sutton / Ismael Valdez / Fernando Valenzuela / Bob Welch / Stan Williams | |
| 2 | Cleveland Indians | 20 | Gary Bell / Dennis Eckersley / Bob Feller / Wes Ferrell / Mel Harder / Steve Hargan / Willis Hudlin / Addie Joss / George Kahler / Sam McDowell / Willie Mitchell / Earl Moore / Guy Morton / Jim Perry / CC Sabathia / Herb Score / Joe Shaute / Greg Swindell / George Uhle / Jaret Wright | |
| 3 | Chicago White Sox | 18 | Wilson Alvarez / Jason Bere / Ted Blankenship / Mark Buehrle / Britt Burns / John Danks / Richard Dotson / Alex Fernandez / Jon Garland / Orval Grove / Bart Johnson / Tommy John / Ted Lyons / Melido Perez / Billy Pierce / Jim Scott / Steve Trout / Lefty Williams | |
| 4 | Oakland Athletics | 18 | Chief Bender / Vida Blue / Boardwalk Brown / Bullet Joe Bush / Trevor Cahill / Andy Coakley / Jimmy Dygert / Rich Harden / Weldon Henley / Tim Hudson / Catfish Hunter / Harry Krause / Mark Mulder / Jim Nash / Blue Moon Odom / Eddie Rommel / Carl Scheib / Barry Zito | |
| 5 | Detroit Tigers | 17 | Elden Auker / Jeremy Bonderman / Hooks Dauss / Jean Dubuc / Billy Hoeft / Art Houtteman / Mickey Lolich / Denny McLain / George Mullin / Hal Newhouser / Dan Petry / Rick Porcello / Schoolboy Rowe / Dave Rozema / Ed Summers / Justin Verlander / Jeff Weaver | |
| 6 | Baltimore Orioles | 16 | Doyle Alexander / Steve Barber / George Baumgardner / Wally Bunker / Storm Davis / Chuck Estrada / Jack Fisher / Ned Garver / Earl Hamilton / Dennis Martinez / Dave McNally / Mike Mussina / Jim Palmer / Milt Pappas / Barney Pelty / Sidney Ponson | |
| 7 | Boston Red Sox | 16 | Jim Bagby / Hugh Bedient / Tom Brewer / Roger Clemens / Dennis Eckersley / Dave Ferriss / Dutch Leonard / Mickey McDermott / Bill Monbouquette / Dave Morehead / Red Ruffing / Jack Russell / Babe Ruth / Bob Stanley / Chuck Stobbs / Smoky Joe Wood | |
| 8 | Cincinnati Reds | 16 | Rube Benton / Ewell Blackwell / Johnny Cueto / Pete Donohue / Hod Eller / Sammy Ellis / Ross Grimsley / Don Gullett / Noodles Hahn / Jim Maloney / Gary Nolan / Jim O'Toole / Frank Pastore / Pete Schneider / Junior Thompson / Herm Wehmeier | |
| 9 | Minnesota Twins | 15 | Bert Blyleven / Joe Boehling / Dave Boswell / Scott Erickson / Bert Gallia / Bump Hadley / Harry Harper / Walter Johnson / Jim Kaat / Kyle Lohse / Jim Merritt / Brad Radke / Pedro Ramos / Jim Shaw / Early Wynn | |
| 10 | Chicago Cubs | 14 | Moe Drabowsky / Dick Ellsworth / Glen Hobbie / Ken Holtzman / Burt Hooton / Tony Kaufmann / Carl Lundgren / Greg Maddux / Vern Olsen / Mark Prior / Ed Reulbach / Lon Warneke / Kerry Wood / Carlos Zambrano | |
| 11 | Philadelphia Phillies | 14 | Dennis Bennett / Larry Christenson / Ray Culp / Cole Hamels / Randy Lerch / Art Mahaffey / Erskine Mayer / George McQuillan / Brett Myers / Eppa Rixey / Robin Roberts / Curt Simmons / Doc White / Rick Wise | |
| 12 | St. Louis Cardinals | 14 | Nelson Briles / Steve Carlton / Dizzy Dean / Paul Dean / Bill Doak / Bob Harmon / Larry Jaster / Dave LaPoint / Johnny Lush / Joe Magrane / Lindy McDaniel / Lee Meadows / Ray Sadecki / Bill Sherdel | |
| 13 | New York Yankees | 11 | Al Downing / Lefty Gomez / Waite Hoyt / Phil Hughes / Hank Johnson / Steve Kline / Johnny Kucks / Andy Pettitte / Dave Righetti / Bill Stafford / Mel Stottlemyre | |
| 14 | San Francisco Giants | 11 | Red Ames / Ron Bryant / Matt Cain / Slick Castleman / Doc Crandall / Juan Marichal / Rube Marquard / Christy Mathewson / Mike McCormick / Pol Perritt / Hal Schumacher | |
| 15 | Atlanta Braves | 10 | Steve Avery / Tony Cloninger / Tom Glavine / Tommy Hanson / Bill James / Jair Jurrjens / Kevin Millwood / John Smoltz / George Stone / Lefty Tyler | |
| 16 | Pittsburgh Pirates | 10 | John Candelaria / Wilbur Cooper / Larry French / Bob Friend / Claude Hendrix / Lefty Leifield / Nick Maddox / Al Mamaux / Bob Moose / John Smiley | |
| 17 | Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim | 8 | Jim Abbott / Dean Chance / Andy Messersmith / Tom Murphy / Fred Newman / Ervin Santana / Frank Tanana / Mike Witt | |
| 18 | Kansas City Royals | 7 | Kevin Appier / Steve Busby / Tom Gordon / Zack Greinke / Mark Gubicza / Jose Rosado / Bret Saberhagen | |
| 19 | Milwaukee Brewers | 7 | Yovani Gallardo / Moose Haas / Jaime Navarro / Juan Nieves / Ben Sheets / Jim Slaton / Lary Sorensen | |
| 20 | New York Mets | 5 | Sid Fernandez / Gary Gentry / Dwight Gooden / Jon Matlack / Tom Seaver | |
| 21 | Florida Marlins | 4 | Ryan Dempster / Scott Olsen / Chris Volstad / Dontrelle Willis | |
| 22 | Houston Astros | 4 | Larry Dierker / Mike Hampton / Roy Oswalt / Don Wilson | |
| 23 | San Diego Padres | 3 | Andy Benes / Clay Kirby / Jake Peavy | |
| 24 | Seattle Mariners | 3 | Dave Fleming / Felix Hernandez / Joel Pineiro | |
| 25 | Washington Nationals | 3 | Bill Gullickson / Pedro Martinez / Scott Sanderson | |
| 26 | Texas Rangers | 2 | Joe Coleman / Claude Osteen | |
| 27 | Toronto Blue Jays | 2 | Kelvim Escobar / Dave Stieb | |
| 28 | Colorado Rockies | 1 | Jason Jennings | |
| 30 | Tampa Bay Rays | 1 | Scott Kazmir | |
| 31 | Arizona Diamondbacks | 0 |
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Maybe Trevor Bauer and/or Archie Bradley will get the snakes on the board?
August 11th, 2011 at 11:45 am
Interesting thing to search for sure, but to the extent that the list seems like a 'ranking', it's a bit misleading. Lots of those teams weren't even around in the early 1900's. Might need to normalize it as YAPPY (Young Arms Produced Per Year) by dividing the number of pitchers per team on this list by the number of years the organization has been around since 1901.
Thanks for the fun blog!
August 11th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
Nice dicussion starter, Steve.
I have to agree with Zach, though, that is really just a ranking of age of franchise not a commentary on the organizations' ability to develop young winning arms.
Young pitchers are kept in the minors longer today than in previous times, I suspect. No Bob Feller's or Nuxhall's today. There is too much money at stake.
The individual pitchers in the old franchises are listed alphabetically, not chronologically, so it takes a bit of work to sort out which ones were recent.
Without a correction factor for years of existence, the list is a curiousity only.
August 11th, 2011 at 12:20 pm
In 1972 the only year the Mets had Gentry, Matlack, and Seaver as regular starters, all 5 starters, 3 of the 5 top relievers and all 4 of the others who pitched that year played their first ML game for the Mets. The 2 oldest players Sadecki and Taylor did not. Nolan Ryan missed your list by 1 win.
August 11th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
@1 you're correct, the top 16 teams are the original 16 ML teams. What's interesting is 8 of the top 10 are AL teams. How would a search from 1901 to 1972 look? The DH came along in 1973. I also noticed that Florida has more than Texas.
August 11th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Tampa Bay and Arizona very close in number of pitchers, Florida and Colorado a bit different, Toronto and Seattle very close, Washington and San Diego close, even Mets and Astros close.
Texas(Washington), one could argue, should have the same number of winning young arms as the Mets and Astros, so perhaps they have not done quite as well with their young pitchers.
August 11th, 2011 at 1:04 pm
What's interesting is that there isn't necessarily a great correlation with success among the original 16. Dodgers top the list, Pirates are last, but the Cardinals, Yankees and Giants, all historically successful franchises, are 12-14.
August 11th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Steve lopped off the Federal League teams from his list. Only one team, the Newark Pepper, had a pitcher who made the list, but he's someone I'd like to find out more about: righthander George Kaiserling.
Kaiserling was a teammate of Benny Kauff with Indianapolis in 1914 and relocated with the team to Newark in 1915. He had a solid season in the minors in 1916. He certainly appeared capable of pitching successfully in the majors, but his career ended right there. The only other thing I know about George Kaiserling is that he died on March 2, 1918, in his hometown of Steubenville, Ohio, at the age of 24. What caused his death? Why didn't he pitch professionally in 1917?
August 11th, 2011 at 2:11 pm
When the Yankees were most successful, before the draft was started in the 60s, they found it difficult to sign the best young players, because they knew they would be stuck in the minors. When were dealing with pitchers winning 30 games at a young age, we're talking about starting pitchers. The Arizona team was committed from the beginning to bring in veteran starting pitchers. Only 1 pitcher 24 and younger has started 30 games for Arizona in a single season.
From 1901 to 1972
Indians 16 Dodgers 15
Athletics 13 Reds 13
Red Sox 13 Cards 12
Twins 12 Phillies 10
Orioles 11 Giants 10
Tigers 11 Cubs 9
Yankees 8 Pirates 8
White Sox 7 Braves 4
The Dodgers, Cards, Giants are the top 3 NL Pennant Winners
The Yankees, Athletics, and Red Sox are the top 3 AL Pennant Winners, but the Indains are 3rd in Win %.
August 11th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Dennis Eckersley's listed twice?
August 11th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Yep 77 wins with 2 teams
August 11th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
@9 @10
Chuck and Charles, wow, I tend to forget about the early part of Eck's career.
August 11th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
at the end of their "age 24 season"...
Gary Nolan: 76 wins
Warren Spahn: 0 wins
it's a long race.
August 11th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Following up on #7, The Deadball Era lists George Kaiserling's cause of death as "pulmonary tuberculosis."
August 11th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
@12
Doug B., the human arm and shoulder are delicate mechanisms.
August 11th, 2011 at 8:05 pm
#7: There are several mentions of Kaiserling in the book "The Federal League of Base Ball Clubs: The History of an Outlaw Major League" by Robert Peyton Wiggins. But unfortunately, all the mentions are in accounts of games. You don't learn much about what happened to him.
Here is a link to the book on Google Books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=4yDtlquCJiYC&pg=PA20&dq=George+Kaiserling&hl=en&ei=sGtETsuZKYPu0gHsy5D6CQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=George%20Kaiserling&f=false
August 11th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
Interesting fact about Gary Nolan - during his career with the Reds every year that he won at least 15 games the Reds made the World Series, and every year the Reds made the World Series he won at least 15 games. A perfect 1-to-1 correspondence - couldn't have one without the other.
August 11th, 2011 at 8:57 pm
On Feb. 19, 1917 Toledo of the American Association sent Kaiserling to Memphis of the Southern Association. On April 23, 1917 Memphis sent him to Chattanooga in the same league. I don't know if he appeared in a game for any team that year.
August 11th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Surprised the Mets had only 5.
August 12th, 2011 at 1:18 am
Also, to measure pitcher success, rather than include a large measure of their teams non-pitching strength, another stat, ERA + most obviously, would be better than wins. Also earlier age starts & more chances even more heavily favor the early days & the older franchises.
August 12th, 2011 at 1:46 am
It is also that both of the Rangers' pitchers on the list, Claude Osteen and Joe Coleman, accomplished this feat in Washington. No Ranger has ever won thirty games with the team before the end of year 24.
August 12th, 2011 at 3:23 am
Articles written by bloggers is very good, and you can exchange links?;-)
August 12th, 2011 at 7:52 am
The Angels had 13 players with 54 or more career starts with 7 with 82 or more. They had 8 30 game winners.
The Mets had 9 players with 54 or more career starts with 5 with 82 or more. They had 5 30 game winners.
The Astros had 8 players with 54 or more career starts with 3 with 82 over 90. They had 4 30 game winners.
The Rangers had 7 players with 54 or more career starts with 2 over 82 or more. They had 2 30 game winners. Three were Senators, 3 were Rangers and one was both.
17/19 pitchers with 30 or more wins had 82 or more starts. Andy Messersmith had 31 total wins (26 in 64 starts, 5 in 41 relief appearances) and Roy Oswalt had 33 wins (31 in 54 starts, 2 in 9 relief appearances.
The Angels have the best team winning% in their history with 1 WS title and the Mets have the most Pennants/WS. The Rangers have the lowest win% and the Astros and Pangers are 0-1 in WS.
August 12th, 2011 at 9:24 am
The Rays have had some decent young starters lately, but not promoting them to the majors until they are plenty ripe has held them back on this leaderboard.
Looking up their details, maybe I'm making too much of the Rays' promotion tendencies. David Price missed by one win, but he's the only guy who has been close. Can one really say that Jeremy Hellickson would have had a dozen or more wins pitching for a more typical team?
August 12th, 2011 at 10:01 am
DBAcks will have at least 1 in the next 5-6 years as they are LOADED in the minors with quality pitching prospects - Bauer, Skaggs, Parker, Corbin, Holmberg, Miley, Bradley & a few others.
August 12th, 2011 at 10:10 am
There have been 316 pitchers reach 30 wins since 1901. 18 pitched at least 1/2 their games as relievers Since 1990 the numbers are 63 and 0.
August 12th, 2011 at 11:56 am
There may be two trends that work against a lot of young pitchers gaining 30 wins. The wealthier teams have the bucks to sign top tier experienced free agents and the need to win now so that it's harder to risk it with a younger pitcher. And more mid and slow market teams are being very careful with their younger stars because of arbitration eligibility-they'd rather leave them down in the farm for a longer period
August 12th, 2011 at 11:55 pm
In the past 10 years, 31 pitchers obtained 30 wins before they turned 25. This is the highest total since 1967-1976. 50 of the 78 pitchers who have started at least 34 total games during their first two seasons, in the past 10 years, were under the age of 25. 42 pitchers retired in the past 10 years after a season in which they started at least 17 games. This opens up the number of starting positions available for rookies.
August 17th, 2011 at 9:07 am
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