28 Responses to “9+ TB In 9-Inning Game Age 37+ Since 1919”

1. Josh Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 1:06 pm

   I love that Pete Alexander, a pitcher, made this list.

2. Spartan Bill Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 1:09 pm

   I realize that this list was generated in commemoration of Derek Jeter's day yesterday; but perhaps it should have been a list of players EXACTLY at age 37 for a better comparison.

   This is Jeter's first season as a 37+, while names at the top like Musial, Banks, Sauer, Williams, and Bar-roid all played to Age 40 and beyond.

3. DavidRF Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

   @2
   I didn't take this as a knock on Jeter that he's only made it once so far. Its a fun list of great games by older players.

4. Austyn Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 1:29 pm

   Another list with Gary Gaetti on it, that is what I like to see!

5. rogerbusby Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 1:33 pm

   Doc Cramer, the only player on the list not to hit a HR, hit 37 career HRs. Twenty-two of them came at age 25-29. Twelve came from age 37-41. This leaves 3 dingers hit in his "prime", covering about 4800 PA from 1936 thru 1943. He actually had four straight homerless seasons as a lefty batter at Fenway Park.

   This begs two questions:
   1) Has there ever been a better player than Cramer (his #1 similarity is Richie Ashburn) who hit for a smaller percentage of career HRs during healthy, middle-of-the-career seasons?

   2) Is their any chance that someone who is a little less unemployed than I am can run this thru the play index?

6. rogerbusby Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 2:07 pm

   @5

   Also - 2 of the 3 prime HRs were inside the park jobs.
   Five of his 37 career HR were IPHR.

   PS - Who doesn't love statistical outliers?

7. JoeThunder Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 2:30 pm

   3000 hits, 5 - 5, greatest moment while at a game for me personally.

8. BSK Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 3:03 pm

   Roger-

   Don't you think that describing his prime at 30-36 is manipulating the data too much?

9. Chris Says:
   July 10th, 2011 at 3:47 pm

   Wait - Pete Rose had a 3HR game at any age?

10. Chris Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Another note on Pete Alexander - 3-for-3 with double, triple, homer ... a single away from the cycle.

11. Andy R Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    #9- Which begs another question- has a pitcher ever hit for the cycle?

12. Rich Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Usually 25-29 IS a player's prime, not 30-36

13. DavidRF Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Bob Thurman makes the list twice. He would have had a longer career if it wasn't for the color line.

14. JW Lewis Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    @1 Josh---Lew Burdette too, another pitcher.

    Jose Pagan and Lee Lacy, two utility types who crafted out a career past 37.

15. Neil L. Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    Related to nothing in particular except the low run-scoring environment, but another 1-0 game today ..... and there is still the Mets and Giants game to go. It seems like 1-0 games are a daily occurence and offense is evaporating right before our eyes.

16. Richard Chester Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    @5

    I have a list of most consecutive AB without a home run. Here are the top ten.
    Tommy Thevenow 3347
    Eddie Foster 3278
    Al Bridwell 3246
    Terry Turner 3186
    Sparky Adams 3104
    Jack McCarthy 3021
    Lee Tannehill 2701
    Doc Cramer 2663
    Donie Bush 2617
    Mike Tresh 2568

17. rogerbusby Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    @7 BSK

    It's primeish - I know its pushing it a bit. I always considered 28-32 the PRIME seasons.

    You have to acknowledge that a player hitting less than 1/12 of his HR in the middle seven seasons of a solid to above-average career is probably pretty rare. Over 600 PA in each of the seven seasons, over 700 PA in 4. In a hitter's park, in a hitter's era, he hit exactly 1 ball over a fence during this time frame. This opposed to 31 in the early and later parts of his career.

    Also, what is this concept of "manipulating the data too much"? I know all those words individually, yet I'm having trouble putting together an overall meaning.

18. John Autin Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    I beg everyone who uses the phrase "begs the question" to check out the definition on this website:
    http://begthequestion.info/

    (Sorry, but it's a pet peeve. You may all throw your gloves at me now.)

19. Doug Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    @11.

    "Has a pitcher ever hit for the cycle?"

    According to PI, it hasn't happened yet in the game-searchable era.

20. BSK Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    Rogerbusby-

    By manipulating the data, I meant that you were presenting it in such a way that attempted to construe a conclusion we wouldn't otherwise draw from it. Perhaps there is a better way of defining it, and I certainly understand your overall point (which is a valid one, as you articulated in your most recent post), but to say that a guy's peak was from 30-36 or whatever you initially said was simply untrue by any accepted definition of the term "peak". For me at least, I paid less attention to your bigger point and more to the inaccuracy of that statement. Not a huge issue, but one worth considering when presenting data to a largely data-driven community.

21. John Autin Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    Rogerbusby -- I don't mean to pile on, but it's been clearly demonstrated that a hitter's peak season is most often in the range of age 27-28. And almost every hitter is in decline before age 35.

    I still did your statistical outlier, though. 🙂

22. John Autin Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    "dig" -- I dig your statistical outlier.

23. Gerry Says:
    July 10th, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    @11, according to the ever reliable answers.com, "Jimmy Ryan, primarily the center fielder for the Cubs, hit for the cycle on July 28, 1888. He also pitched in that game, a 21 to 17 win over the Detroit Wolverines. He is the only player to hit for the cycle (single, double, triple, and home run) AND pitch (at all) in a major league game."

24. BSK Says:
    July 11th, 2011 at 1:15 am

    Gerry-

    Sounds like a football game!

    I heard that, way back when, pitchers had to pitch underhand with an "unbroken" wrist, which basically amounts to beer-league softball pitching.

    A) Is this true? B) If so, when did the rules change to what we would identify as pitching the way we know it today? And C) Should we consider any records from this era, if it did exist, essentially meaningless? I understand that the game evolves, but as I had it explained to me, the pitcher's job was less to get people out and more to allow the batter to put the ball in play so that fielders could make outs. That, to me, is such a fundamental difference as to essentially make the game a different one beyond comparison.

25. BSK Says:
    July 11th, 2011 at 1:30 am

    http://www.19cbaseball.com/

    This site didn't answer my question (or, if it does, I can't find it), but has some really interesting historical stuff on it. Interestingly enough, back in the day, umpires were allowed to ask spectators to confirm a disputed catch. So, even in the late 19th century, umpires had a system of review they currently lack today.

    From: http://jockandballs.com/2009/09/08/10-craziest-baseball-rules/
    "1. Pitchers Threw Underhand
    That should blow your mind. Major League Baseball officially started in 1876, but it wasn’t until 1883 that pitchers were allowed to throw overhand. The initial rules of baseball stated that pitchers had to throw the ball as if they were pitching a horseshoe. So these old batters got to call for their pitch and get it thrown to them underhand. They couldn’t step towards the plate. No wonder the pitchers covered the balls in battery acid and pig manure."

    No citation offered, but it seems consistent with what other websites offered. In general, it's crazy to read about the evolution of the rules of the game. Fascinating stuff. On this specific point, it is hard to really take stats seriously when Jim Creighton "a pitching pioneer, pitched with the mindset of retiring batters as opposed to simply delivering the baseball to be put in play." Creighton was immediately met with great success:
    "Creighton moved from the Star Club of Brooklyn to the Excelsior Club of Brooklyn in 1860 and led them to a 19-2 season record. During their 21 games, the Excelsiors allowed 10 or more runs only five times and never allowed an opponent to score 20 runs. Opponents averaged a mere 7.9 runs per game against Creighton and the Excelsiors. Conversely, the 15-2 Eckford Club of Brooklyn allowed their opponents to score 10 or more runs 13 times in 17 matches and three times allowed their opponent to score more than 20 runs. The Atlantic Club of Brooklyn, who finished 13-3-1, allowed their competition to score 10 or more runs 13 times in 16 matches and 20 or more runs three times. The 8-1-4 Gotham Club of New York allowed 10 or more runs in all of their matches except their final contest on October 8th. Both the Eckford and Gotham Clubs allowed an average of over 14 runs per game and the Atlantic's allowed over 13 runs per game."

    What a novel idea! Try to get people out! AND IT WORKED!

    (All of these quotes are from the first website listed.)

    And with that, off to bed. I have to make a semi-return to humanity/society tomorrow (grumblegrumblegrumble).

26. Neil L. Says:
    July 11th, 2011 at 7:48 am

    @25
    BSK, you're always in polite, but virtual, society here! 🙂 🙂

27. BSK Says:
    July 11th, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    Thanks, Neil. The society here doesn't mind that I haven't shaved in a month and I'm about 6 weeks behind on a haircut for my already-too-long hair. With the exception of the 4th of July weekend, I spent most of the past two weeks on the couch, recovering from a five-day bender in New Orleans for my bachelor party, during which I injured my rib cage from booting so hard. I'm getting married in 4 weeks so I need to get my ish together, which unfortunately means (slightly) less time on sites like this and (slightly) more time not acting so slovenly.

    Oh, how do I manage all this? I'm a teacher. Life is good... 🙂

28. Mustachioed Repetition Says:
    July 11th, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    I hope you rallied just as hard.