Most TB By Non-P Age 35+ In 1st MLB Game Since 1919
Posted by Steve Lombardi on June 24, 2011
Of all the non-pitchers to make their major league debut at age 35 or older, since 1919, who has the most Total Bases in their first game?
Here's the list -
| Rk | Gcar | Player | Age | Date | Tm | Opp | Rslt | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | TB | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | ROE | GDP | SB | CS | WPA | RE24 | BOP | Pos. Summary | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1 | Bill McGhee | 38.304 | 1944-07-05 | PHA | SLB | L 2-4 | 5 | 5 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 5 | 1B | |||
| 2 | 1 | Earle Brucker | 35.348 | 1937-04-19 | PHA | WSH | W 4-3 | 5 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 6 | C | ||||
| 3 | 1 | Buzz Clarkson | 37.048 | 1952-04-30 | BSN | PIT | L 5-11 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | -0.060 | .010 | 9 | PH SS |
| 4 | 1 | Chuck Hostetler | 40.210 | 1944-04-19 | DET | SLB | L 1-3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 8 | PH | |||
| 5 | 1 | Minnie Mendoza | 36.144 | 1970-04-09 | MIN | CHW | W 6-4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 4 | 3B | ||
| 6 | 1 | Billy Williams | 36.063 | 1969-08-15 | SEP | BAL | L 1-2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 6 | PR | ||
| 7 | 1 | Hank Izquierdo | 36.142 | 1967-08-09 | MIN | WSA | L 7-9 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.120 | -0.478 | 2.530 | 9 | PH C |
| 8 | 1 | Bob Thurman | 37.335 | 1955-04-14 | CIN | CHC | L 4-6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.154 | 1.094 | 1.380 | 2 | PH |
| 9 | 1 | Quincy Trouppe | 39.127 | 1952-04-30 | CLE | PHA | L 1-3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -0.053 | -0.384 | 1.000 | 8 | C |
| 10 | 1 | Howie McFarland | 35.131 | 1945-07-16 (1) | WSH | SLB | L 3-7 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 9 | PH | |||
| 11 | 1 | Lee Riley | 37.243 | 1944-04-19 | PHI | BRO | L 4-5 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 8 | PH | |||
| 12 | 1 | Buck Fausett | 36.010 | 1944-04-18 | CIN | CHC | L 0-3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 8 | PH | |||
| 13 | 1 | Tex Vache | 35.150 | 1925-04-16 | BOS | PHA | L 3-7 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 9 | PH | ||||
| 14 | 1 | Lew Groh | 35.290 | 1919-08-02 | PHA | SLB | L 2-5 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0.000 | 0.000 | 8 | 3B |
Now, there's a bunch of baseball names that you don't see everyday. Buzz Clarkson? Minnie Mendoza? Hank Izquierdo? Quincy Trouppe? Buck Fausett? Tex Vache? Anyone have their baseball cards?
June 24th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Trouppe was a great Negro Leaguer.
June 24th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
I'd be shocked if any of them HAD baseball cards.
June 24th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Not to mention a fake Billy Williams
June 24th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Several WW-2 time guys in the above list, when they were beating the bushes to find live bodies to play ball.
McGhee 1944
Hostetler 1944
McFarland 1945
Riley 1944
Fausett 1944
June 24th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
I looked up Chuck Hostetler as, apparently, the oldest non-pitcher to make his MLB debut, and the only one over 40. He looks to be the ultimate emergency wartime fill-in.
Hostetler played 10 seasons in the minors, but none since 1937. So, he had been out of baseball completely for 6 years before the Tigers came calling in the spring of '44. Good on him for turning in a respectable showing (95 OPS+).
June 24th, 2011 at 8:39 pm
Steve, curious about what prompted a search like this.
Not being critical at all of the blog but something must have triggered your thinking. I'd love to know how your mind worked.
Was it a current game event or something else?
June 24th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
@3
So there were three Billy Williams's in the ML at the same time in 1969: Billy Williams, the fake Billy Williams and the umpire Billy Williams.
June 24th, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Neil L stole my exact thought.
I was sure to see a guy who debuted this week, then went looking for guys who might sign with a team... but, I couldn't think of what was the impetus.
But I do think that there is a reason there is no player past 1970 on your list... And that is; the emergence of latin & asian players and their respective leagues. There are so many more pools of talent today filled with guys who are playing in competitive leagues, that older players don't shift around the minors for years.
June 24th, 2011 at 10:17 pm
How many 30+-year-olds have made their Major League debuts within the past several years? Chris Coste is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, as he turned his minor league career/rookie season into a memoir...
June 24th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
Doug, FYI, more on Chuck Hostetler -
http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/8107#comment-45726
June 24th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
~~Steve, curious about what prompted a search like this.~~
Be careful what you ask for! 🙂
True story: I was reading the back of Baseball America where they list the transactions and deaths. For the last two editions, they started listing MLB debuts this season since the last week. Players name, date of debut, when drafted, the scout who signed them, etc. - and the player's age.
Seeing all those young ages at debuts made me start thinking about old players in the debut...and then I wondered which old timer had a big day in the debut...and that led to this PI query.
Yes, my mind is a scary and unconventional place. That's why I said be careful! 🙂
June 24th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
The only three with more PA than Coste's 885 were Kosuke Fukudome (1867), So Taguchi (1524), and Tad Iguchi (2078), primarily because they already had proven themselves in foreign leagues. Ken Huckaby (451) and Tom WIlson (626) were the only ones I could find with anything to similar staying power.
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/AFj6m
June 24th, 2011 at 10:59 pm
@9
John Lindsay on the Dodgers, last year. He was kind of a feel good story that popped up because the Dodgers were so disappointing that year.
June 24th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
Trouppe, Clarkson, and Thurman were all Negro Leaguers, and would likely have debuted earlier but for the color line and unofficial quotas.
Trouppe is in Baseball Prospectus' Hall of Merit, while Clarkson still gets some votes.
June 24th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
Brucker went on to hit .374 the following season and garnered some MVP votes as a part time catcher.
June 25th, 2011 at 12:45 am
@9 Bobby Scales! Bobby is a fine player, that has a career of bad luck. Bobby is fast.
June 25th, 2011 at 1:13 am
@10.
Thanks Steve for the Hostetler link.
He certainly made the most of his opportunity right out of the gate, leading the league in hitting three weeks into the season.
Also interesting that he was believed at the time to be "only" 38, rather than 40. It's hard to imagine a guy out of baseball for 6 years would still be playing coy about his age - was he still wrangling for a shot at the bigs as opposed to just picking up his phone one day when the Tigers called?
June 25th, 2011 at 1:16 am
I'm curious as to why you made this for non-pitchers. Did a pitcher get more total bases? If a pitcher did, your post would even be more interesting. We usually assume that hitting records are by non-pitchers, but I'm ready for a surprise.
June 25th, 2011 at 3:51 am
@3.
The "fake" Billy Williams. Hey, show some respect for the man - he can't help what his name is.
I've got a lot of respect for a guy who sticks it out for 18 minor league seasons and finally makes it to the bigs, even if only for 4 games. He played everywhere from Sherbrooke, Quebec to Honolulu. Clearly, Billy knew he'd climbed his Everest - he didn't come back for a 19th year riding the buses.
June 25th, 2011 at 5:04 am
@19: The bus trip, from Honolulu, to West Coast games, must have been a b****......
June 25th, 2011 at 9:12 am
@11
Thanks, Steve, he-he.
June 25th, 2011 at 10:54 am
Wasn't Chuck Hostetler one of the potential "goats" of the 1945 World Series? I recall (perhaps falsely) that he made some kind of baserunning blunder that lost (or almost lost) a game for the Tigers, but they won the series anyway. Anyone know the facts?
June 25th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
@22
In the top of the 7th inning of the 6th game with the Cubs leading 5-1, Hostetler was on 2nd base with one out. Doc Cramer singled and Hostetler ran through the coach's sign and tried to score. He stumbled and fell between 3rd and home and was tagged out. The next batter walked, then came two singles producing two runs for the Tigers. At the end of 9 innings the score was tied and the Cubs won in extra innings. Hostetler was blamed for the loss but there was a recent discussion on this website about the ensuing sequence of events not necessarily being the same, an argument which does have credence.
The Tigers won the series.
June 25th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
The 'fake' Billy Williams made a cameo in 'Ball Four' as a teammate of Jim Bouton. I read that book as a kid, so when I got older and people would talk about Billy Williams the legendary Cub, I just assumed it was that guy who toiled 18 years in the minors. Ah, the days before readily available baseball stats via the internet.
June 26th, 2011 at 1:30 am
I decided to look at career WAR for all players who debuted at age 35 and up. Turns out that Takashi Saito (10.1 WAR) is in range of that "record."
Connie Marrero, a native of Cuba who debuted at 39, had 10.5 WAR with the Senators from 1950-54.
-- In the final start of his rookie year, Marrero shut out the Red Sox, who only scored 1,027 runs and suffered just 2 other shutouts that season.
-- In 1951, he opened the year with 5 straight CG wins, including a 1-hitter and a crafty 16-hitter, made the All-Star team, and led the team with 11 wins (he was the only one with over 150 IP). In the 1-hitter, Barney McCosky of the A's hit a solo HR in the 4th; both Senators runs also came on HRs, which is odd in that they hit just 13 HRs at home all year.
-- In 1952, age 41, he completed 16 of 22 starts, averaging 8.39 IP per game, with a 2.88 ERA (9th in the AL), 124 ERA+ (8th), and 3.6 WAR (10th/pitchers).
-- He was just as effective in '53, though not quite as durable.
-- He was a member of the last 2 Senators teams to finish .500 or better (1952-53).
-- He is still alive, age 100; is he the oldest living player?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/marreco01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Connie%20Marrero
June 26th, 2011 at 4:20 pm
It's actually seemed to me that in recent years, I've been reading quite a number of articles about debuting major leaguers who were well past 30. Maybe, like Coste, they were still as "young" as 33. Also, some have been pitchers. So, I actually expected to see some recent players in this list.
I think that if the average age of debuting players has gotten higher in recent years, the following factors may be responsible:
1. More US-raised players are playing college ball first. Thus, they don't sign their first pro contracts until 21-22 years of age instead of at age 17-19.
2. The rise of the independent leagues has given a lot of players who were released or never signed by major league organizations a place to play.
3. New ways of treating injuries, such as Tommy John surgery, plus better conditioning have allowed players to stay active longer while pursuing their dreams of reaching the major leagues.
4. The introduction of specialist roles, such as the DH and the pitchers referred to as LOOGY, has given older players at all levels a chance at a spot on a team. While major league teams usually use experienced players as the DH, this slot on a AAA team may provide a way for a veteran minor leaguer to stick around and maybe eventually get called up if the veteran major leaguer filling the DH role gets hurt.
5. Major league players coming from the professional leagues in Japan and elsewhere are considered to be rookies (and at least three have won Rookie-of-the-Year). They are no doubt older than the average rookie coming from a farm system.
6. The large amount of money that a major leaguer can make may also keep a veteran minor leaguer active, with his eye on getting some of the pot.
June 27th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
@25
Yes he is. Second oldest is Ace Parker who is currently the oldest still living pro football player.
June 28th, 2011 at 1:17 am
Diamond/26, I think most of your points are valid (without having studied whether your hypothesis is correct). Re point 2, I think the rise in independent leagues just picks up for the partial demise of the old affiliated minor leagues.