Very productive despite batting under .200
Posted by Andy on May 22, 2011
Here are the guys to bat under .200 while having an OPS+ of at least 120:
| Rk | Player | Year | Age | Tm | Lg | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | IBB | SO | HBP | SH | SF | GDP | SB | CS | Pos | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Joe Harris | .000 | 143 | 1914 | 23 | NYY | AL | 2 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .800 | .000 | .800 | /*3*7 |
| 2 | Dick Nen | .125 | 154 | 1963 | 23 | LAD | NL | 7 | 11 | 8 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | .364 | .500 | .864 | /*3 |
| 3 | Rob Deer | .167 | 159 | 1984 | 23 | SFG | NL | 13 | 32 | 24 | 5 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 7 | 0 | 10 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | .375 | .542 | .917 | /*7 |
| 4 | Andy Etchebarren | .167 | 124 | 1965 | 22 | BAL | AL | 5 | 6 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .167 | .667 | .833 | /*2 |
| 5 | Doug Clemens | .167 | 155 | 1963 | 24 | STL | NL | 5 | 8 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .286 | .667 | .952 | /79 |
| 6 | Jim Gentile | .167 | 138 | 1957 | 23 | BRO | NL | 4 | 7 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .286 | .667 | .952 | /*3 |
| 7 | Buck Freeman | .167 | 140 | 1907 | 35 | BOS | AL | 4 | 15 | 12 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .333 | .417 | .750 | /*9 |
| 8 | Frank Fernandez | .170 | 124 | 1968 | 25 | NYY | AL | 51 | 170 | 135 | 15 | 23 | 6 | 1 | 7 | 30 | 35 | 2 | 50 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 0 | .341 | .385 | .726 | *2/9 |
| 9 | Babe Ellison | .172 | 138 | 1917 | 20 | DET | AL | 9 | 37 | 29 | 2 | 5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 4 | 6 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .333 | .448 | .782 | /*3 |
| 10 | George Canale | .176 | 125 | 1991 | 25 | MIL | AL | 21 | 44 | 34 | 6 | 6 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 10 | 8 | 0 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | .318 | .500 | .818 | *3 |
| 11 | Rob Deer | .180 | 124 | 1996 | 35 | SDP | NL | 25 | 64 | 50 | 9 | 9 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 9 | 14 | 0 | 30 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | .359 | .480 | .839 | *9/7 |
| 12 | Ozzie Virgil | .182 | 172 | 1989 | 32 | TOR | AL | 9 | 15 | 11 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .400 | .545 | .945 | /*D2 |
| 13 | Charlie Vinson | .182 | 123 | 1966 | 22 | CAL | AL | 13 | 28 | 22 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 5 | 0 | 9 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .357 | .409 | .766 | *3 |
| 14 | Roy Ellam | .190 | 156 | 1909 | 23 | CIN | NL | 10 | 29 | 21 | 4 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 7 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | .393 | .429 | .821 | /*6 |
| 15 | John Weekly | .192 | 127 | 1962 | 25 | HOU | NL | 13 | 33 | 26 | 3 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 7 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | .364 | .462 | .825 | /79 |
| 16 | Mike Napoli | .193 | 122 | 2011 | 29 | TEX | AL | 30 | 103 | 83 | 15 | 16 | 4 | 0 | 6 | 16 | 20 | 0 | 20 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 1 | .350 | .458 | .807 | 32/D |
| 17 | Jason Giambi | .194 | 125 | 2011 | 40 | COL | NL | 15 | 36 | 31 | 5 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 11 | 4 | 0 | 10 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | .306 | .581 | .886 | /3 |
This is through Friday and excludes pitchers.
We have 2 players in 2011 currently on the list, although both Napoli and Giambi are likely to fall off one way or another--either their batting averages will go over .200 or their OPS+ will fall below 120 (or, more than likely--both.)
You've noticed by now, of course, that most of the seasons above are tiny samples. Many consist of a handful of games where a player happened to get a few walks or HBP to boost his OBP (and therefore OPS+). And I know a lot of you readers will enjoy seeing Rob Deer's name twice. But that's an interesting entry from Frank Fernandez, a player of whom I had never heard before writing this.
For his entire career, Fernandez finished with a 114 OPS+ and just a .199 batting average. That was due in large part to his very high walk rate. Per 162 games, he walked 93 times, a rate consistent with a top slugger. And, hey, he had 22 homers per 162 games, so he was a pretty good power hitter indeed.
According to his bullpen page, Fernandez leads all players in walks and hits who finished with more walks than hits.
| Rk | Player | BB | H | From | To | Age | HR | RBI | SO | Pos | Tm | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Frank Fernandez | 164 | 145 | 1967 | 1972 | 24-29 | 39 | 116 | 231 | .199 | .350 | .395 | .744 | *2/97 | NYY-OAK-TOT-CHC |
| 2 | Jim French | 121 | 119 | 1965 | 1971 | 23-29 | 5 | 51 | 78 | .196 | .328 | .262 | .590 | *2/7 | WSA |
| 3 | Mickey Lolich | 105 | 90 | 1963 | 1979 | 22-38 | 0 | 31 | 362 | .110 | .215 | .121 | .335 | *1 | DET-NYM-SDP |
| 4 | Willie McGill | 98 | 96 | 1890 | 1896 | 16-22 | 0 | 40 | 77 | .202 | .340 | .250 | .590 | *1/9 | CLE-TOT-CIN-CHC-PHI |
| 5 | Tony Smith | 95 | 90 | 1907 | 1911 | 23-27 | 1 | 26 | 77 | .180 | .314 | .218 | .532 | *6/54 | WSH-BRO |
| 6 | Marty Hopkins | 85 | 80 | 1934 | 1935 | 27-28 | 4 | 48 | 54 | .211 | .357 | .274 | .631 | *5/4 | TOT-CHW |
| 7 | Jack Kramer | 76 | 72 | 1939 | 1951 | 21-33 | 5 | 39 | 162 | .144 | .258 | .198 | .455 | *1 | SLB-BOS-NYG-TOT |
| 8 | Mickey Harris | 60 | 54 | 1940 | 1952 | 23-35 | 0 | 16 | 82 | .188 | .328 | .205 | .532 | *1 | BOS-TOT-WSH |
| 9 | Herman Pitz | 58 | 47 | 1890 | 1890 | 24-24 | 0 | 9 | 0 | .165 | .315 | .165 | .481 | /*2579684 | TOT |
| 10 | Glenn Gulliver | 46 | 39 | 1982 | 1983 | 27-28 | 1 | 7 | 23 | .203 | .356 | .271 | .626 | /*5 | BAL |
True dat. And for being on this list, Mickey Lolich should be written Mickey LOLich.
Wait, I am repeating Raphy. He wrote about this last year.
May 22nd, 2011 at 8:18 am
I think that another poster mentioned this recently, but it shows up here again: Mickey Lolich's career offensive numbers are just amazing.
'The Best .110 Hitter Of All Time'
May 22nd, 2011 at 8:20 am
oops, I didn't read the very last part of the post. My apologies:(
May 22nd, 2011 at 11:21 am
I posted the Lolich stat on a thread not too long ago. I was browsing one day and came across his page and it really still just astounds me. I'll repeat what I posted then - depending on where you set the minimum PA, Lolich has one of hte 10-20 lowest BA and one of the 10-20 lowest ISO of any pitcher ever, let alone all hitters. But his walk rate is one of the highest ever among pitchers and matches players like Dimaggio and Bench. How? How could any opposing pitcher walk him? In 1972 , he walked 20 times in 121 PA despite only 6 hits, all singles. That's a 16.5% walk rate which is equal to Frank Thomas and Joe Moragn's career walk rates and a tick higher than Rickey Henderson.
May 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 am
I think there should be a spot in the HOF for Dale Murphy.
May 22nd, 2011 at 12:15 pm
I remember Fernandez spelling Jake Gibbs occasionally when I first started watching baseball.
Cliff Blau, a long-time SABR member and old rec.sport.baseball contributor, has long pointed to Fernandez as likely the best hitter ever with a career AVG under .200. (He sponsors Fernandez's page here with the same comment.) WAR says he's right and it's not close
I've tried posting the code twice and my comment's not showing up. In any case, for non-pitchers with BA = 0.3, there are only 10- players. Frankie Fernandez leads with 5.9 Jim French (who?) is second with 2.9. Then a couple of guys with 1.1.
May 22nd, 2011 at 1:00 pm
That's BA = 0.3
May 22nd, 2011 at 1:03 pm
Ugh. My less than and greater than signs are getting interpreted as tags, of course. BA less than or equal to .199 and WAR greater than or equal to 0.3.
Let's see, do escape sequences work? BA <= .199 and WAR > 0.3
May 22nd, 2011 at 2:45 pm
This shows it more conclusive. Fernandez is the only player in history to show a sustained ability to be an above average batter while having a BA under .200
http://bbref.com/pi/shareit/old5T
WAR Batting Runs at least 0.1, BA under .200
Rbat BA PA Player
14 .199 902 Frank Fernandez
1 .195 152 Mike Adams
1 .182 28 Charlie Vinson
1 .154 22 Roy Moran
May 22nd, 2011 at 3:53 pm
If you put in a HOF spot for the Murph, you have to have one for Dave Parker, too. Just saying.
May 22nd, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Oh, and speaking of catchers .... any chance on their fielding stats, we could get a league average on caught stealing next to an individual catcher's caught stealing, year-by-year?
I was just on Yadi Molina's page, and don't see but the individual stat.
May 22nd, 2011 at 4:12 pm
What was the minimum pa's? I'm surprised there aren't a bunch of players who only had one PA in a season and they either walked or got HBP in that 1 PA.
May 22nd, 2011 at 4:57 pm
The first two names I considered might be on the list were Rob Deer and Gorman Thomas. I was right on Deer, but in Thomas' best seasons, he was well up into the .230s and .240s.
May 22nd, 2011 at 6:04 pm
@12
Robmet, the career similarity between Rob Deer and Gorman Thomas is how high?
They never overlapped in Milwaukee surprisingly. Thomas was traded before Rob Deer arrived.
May 22nd, 2011 at 7:30 pm
Around 1999 I did a Strat O Matic replay of the 1969 season. Before then, I'd never heard of Frank Fernandez either. As I now know, he shared the Yankee catching job with Jake Gibbs in the dark days before Thurman Munson.
Anyway, in preparation of my replay I did a quick calculation of his OPS and made him the starting catcher and ran the season overnight. In my final printout for of the league's statistics, he was in the top ten in the league in Runs Created.
May 22nd, 2011 at 7:33 pm
The other "The Mick" may have ha a .110 BA, But his career WS OPS is .808
May 22nd, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Looking at this list, I wondered where Mark McGwire's 2001 season stood. McGwire had an OPS+ of 105 while hitting .187 in 97 games.
May 22nd, 2011 at 9:58 pm
What's scary is, it rather looks like Fernandez got the bum rush because he could never get his BA up, and nobody every bothered to notice that he was more productive than average, and out of the catcher spot. Because even managers and GMs weren't paying much attention to OBP back then. I think the assumption was that walks were all on the pitcher. If you were a great hitter, it might be they were scared of you, but if not, then it was all luck.
Seems like they might have missed a guy who could have had a seriously good career today.
May 22nd, 2011 at 10:46 pm
@17 Yes, I think you're right. It's not like pitching coaches could tell their staffs to just put the ball over the plate, because he had real power for the time.
His last year wasn't so good, though, and there aren't enough PA overall to know for sure.
May 22nd, 2011 at 11:59 pm
@4, @9
I liked Dale Murphy, but I don't see him as deserving of the HOF. The productive part of his career was only up to age 31, and he was average or below average after that. When I think of Murphy I always think of Keith Hernandez, since both their careers went "WHOOMP" before age 35.
Parker, however, had an 118 OPS+ season at the age of 39. Even his last season wasn't awful, for a 40-year-old guy. Parker has to get in before Murphy.
And of course, Parker had a much cooler nickname: "Cobra". What could be more awesome than that? But I didn't even know that Murphy had a nickname until I looked at his page here. "The Murph"? That's as lame a nickname as "Cobra" is awesome. Case closed.
May 23rd, 2011 at 12:10 am
@9 Well Dave Parker is actually a better hitter than Dale Murphy, but I just like Murphy better, becuase he's cool and I use to watch all the games on WTBS. Parker has impressive numbers but I never saw him play much, so he should be punished.
May 23rd, 2011 at 12:24 am
When you sign a big contract and then don't stay in shape while coking up, I think that has to count against you. yes, the Pittsburgh fans and national media at the time were all too ready to label any Black player who didn't smile all the time as a loafer, but in Parker's case, I think there's some truth to it. The Hall should be a place to celebrate players who add to our enjoyment of the game by playing well. But when you also detract from people's enjoyment by bad behavior that affects your play, that's worse IMO than a player who lived up to his ability and had the same stats.
May 23rd, 2011 at 12:44 am
@21 Great points, Parker could have had even better numbers had he stayed in shape and not partied. You could say Dale overcame many obsticles to become great, and always gave it a 100%. It's been said that there are many non-saints in the HOF,
May 23rd, 2011 at 5:24 am
Where is Dave Kingman on this list, surely KONG was the most productive 200 hitter ever!
http://www.baseballcomeback.blogspot.com/
May 23rd, 2011 at 10:21 am
Joe Harris--what an interesting listing! .317 lifetime hitter, uncle of Hal Reniff, and owner of an amazing cup of coffee with the 1914 Highlanders. No hits in six plate appearances, but a .800 OBP. And a sacrifice to boot! Thank you for bringing him to my attention!
May 23rd, 2011 at 10:23 am
@23/ The closest Kingman came was in 1981: .221 BA/ 123 OPS
@21/ What hurt Dave Parker's HOF chances was not only the cocaine use, but the hit his career numbers took from those 1980-1983 years, both from sub-par performances and also lots of playing time missed. Eliminate this "valley", and his career numbers might be right on line with many corner outfield HOFers.
Speaking of undervalued catchers (Frank Fernandez), I'd like to bring up the case of Wes Westrum. Although his 1951 doesn't make this chart on both stats (.219 BA, 119 OPS), it bears mentioning because he had an OBA of .400 despite that .219 BA! With 104 walks against only 79 hits, he has to have one of the highest totals of {more walks than hits} of anyone not named Barry Bonds.
May 23rd, 2011 at 12:41 pm
Oh, and speaking of catchers .... any chance on their fielding stats, we could get a league average on caught stealing next to an individual catcher's caught stealing, year-by-year?
If you don't know, you can get that information on the league pages.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2011-specialpos_c-fielding.shtml
May 23rd, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Speaking of the Murph, and the Cobra, I think Steve Garvey is underrated and should be in the HOF, (yes, if I was in charge the HOF would need a new wing). Garvey was an RBI man, a 200 hits man, a singles hitter, with power. I imagine he gets hate here because his SLG % is low. I remember him slipping base hits to right like it was nothing, a real professional hitter.
10 time all star, 1 MVP and 1 second, 4 GG, 2600 hits in a career that did not drag on needlessly past 38. He had the games played streak, good hair, a beautiful wife, a good-looking girlfriend, he was a Republican, he was on both Fantasy Island and the Love Boat, he was a good father (clearing my throat), and was an all around awesome guy.
May 23rd, 2011 at 5:08 pm
In 1210 plate appearances in AAA Frank Fernandez' OBP was .392, so he did that all his career.
I guess that was before the enlightened days that welcomed in the great Mickey Tettleton.
May 23rd, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Timmy, if the HOF only had room for Garvey or Juan Pierre, which would you give the spot to?
May 23rd, 2011 at 10:52 pm
@29 Well, I think that if Juan were to catch fire and maybe get to 2800 hits (he won't) he still might get less than 5% of the hall vote. He could get 3100 hits and probably still not get into the hall. As much as I like this site, I think it's the best baseball site out there, I think that the use sabermetrics for HOF evaluations is wrong, and has all ready hurt a few guys needlessly. Garvey was awesome, and Cindy Garvey was drop dead gorgeous.
May 24th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
Was Steve Garvey your Padre?