Albert Pujols
Posted by Andy on January 27, 2009
Statistically, Albert Pujols ranks as one of the greatest, or perhaps THE greatest, players in baseball history.
In a player's first 8 seasons, most qualified seasons with an OPS+ of at least 150:
From To Ages Seasons Link to Individual Seasons +-----------------+----+----+-----+-------+------------------------------+ Albert Pujols 2001 2008 21-28 8 Ind. Seasons Ted Williams 1939 1949 20-30 8 Ind. Seasons Frank Thomas 1991 1997 23-29 7 Ind. Seasons Hank Aaron 1956 1961 22-27 6 Ind. Seasons Mickey Mantle 1952 1958 20-26 6 Ind. Seasons Stan Musial 1942 1949 21-28 6 Ind. Seasons Johnny Mize 1937 1942 24-29 6 Ind. Seasons Rogers Hornsby 1916 1922 20-26 6 Ind. Seasons Tris Speaker 1909 1914 21-26 6 Ind. Seasons Ty Cobb 1907 1912 20-25 6 Ind. Seasons
Take a look at the names on this list. This ain't any old list. This list probably includes 8 or 9 of the 10 best offensive players ever.
Most homers through the first 8 seasons:
Cnt Player **HR** From To Ages G PA AB R H 2B 3B RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Positions Teams +----+-----------------+-------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+ 1 Ralph Kiner 329 1946 1953 23-30 1212 5223 4327 827 1214 167 34 888 870 0 613 22 4 0 101 20 2 .281 .404 .563 .967 *7/83 PIT-TOT 2 Albert Pujols 319 2001 2008 21-28 1239 5382 4578 947 1531 342 13 977 696 154 506 60 1 47 157 45 26 .334 .425 .624 1.049 *37/59D64 STL 3 Eddie Mathews 299 1952 1959 20-27 1177 5139 4346 821 1221 181 42 777 726 49 678 12 26 29 54 36 16 .281 .383 .548 .931 *5/7 BSN-MLN 4 Adam Dunn 278 2001 2008 21-28 1131 4749 3871 699 955 201 8 672 797 81 1256 58 2 21 57 59 19 .247 .381 .518 .899 *73/9D CIN-TOT 5 Ernie Banks 269 1953 1960 22-29 1078 4632 4159 676 1213 188 55 778 398 95 502 27 10 38 92 36 37 .292 .354 .557 .911 *6/5 CHC 6 Ted Williams 265 1939 1949 20-30 1184 5348 4221 1082 1488 314 56 1038 1101 0 376 21 5 0 99 16 13 .353 .488 .642 1.130 *79/1 BOS 7 Frank Robinson 262 1956 1963 20-27 1190 5073 4377 831 1327 247 39 800 549 91 622 91 13 43 109 125 43 .303 .389 .557 .946 *793/85 CIN 8 Frank Thomas 257 1990 1997 22-29 1076 4789 3821 785 1261 246 8 854 879 118 582 26 0 63 123 18 15 .330 .452 .600 1.052 *3D CHW 9 Hank Aaron 253 1954 1961 20-27 1194 5201 4717 829 1506 264 67 863 397 92 442 17 19 51 131 57 25 .319 .371 .565 .936 *987/45 MLN 10 Darryl Strawberry 252 1983 1990 21-28 1109 4549 3903 662 1025 187 30 733 580 108 960 26 1 39 45 191 75 .263 .359 .520 .879 *9/87 NYM 11 Todd Helton 251 1997 2004 23-30 1135 4798 4051 832 1372 328 22 836 667 109 542 31 2 47 97 30 23 .339 .432 .616 1.048 *3/79 COL 12 Willie Mays 250 1951 1959 20-28 1065 4629 4074 777 1291 204 79 709 505 69 435 14 1 35 89 179 53 .317 .391 .590 .981 *8/7 NYG-SFG 13 Mickey Mantle 249 1951 1958 19-26 1102 4770 3937 890 1238 185 50 766 799 48 773 7 11 16 37 77 22 .314 .430 .577 1.007 *89/645 NYY 14 Rocky Colavito 246 1955 1962 21-28 1006 4206 3608 580 979 167 12 712 537 27 526 15 12 34 94 10 20 .271 .365 .529 .894 *97/31 CLE-DET 15 Joe DiMaggio 244 1936 1946 21-31 1111 4984 4481 939 1495 263 90 1025 463 0 220 26 14 0 55 26 7 .334 .399 .596 .995 *8/79 NYY 16 Albert Belle 242 1989 1996 22-29 913 3922 3441 592 1014 223 16 751 396 49 622 37 4 44 114 61 25 .295 .369 .580 .949 *7D/9 CLE 17 Alex Rodriguez 241 1994 2001 18-25 952 4247 3758 760 1167 228 14 730 385 15 747 47 16 41 80 151 39 .311 .378 .571 .949 *6/D SEA-TEX 18 Mike Piazza 240 1992 1999 23-30 981 4075 3653 611 1200 173 4 768 381 83 563 13 0 28 114 13 13 .328 .391 .575 .966 *2/D3 LAD-TOT-NYM 19 Roger Maris 240 1957 1964 22-29 1073 4457 3878 678 1021 143 31 681 511 32 545 30 9 29 50 21 9 .263 .351 .502 .853 *98/7 CLE-TOT-KCA-NYY 20 Ken Griffey 238 1989 1996 19-26 1057 4558 3985 695 1204 227 21 725 504 119 634 25 6 38 75 108 44 .302 .381 .549 .930 *8/D39 SEA
Kiner played only 10 seasons total and if Pujols hits at least 33 HR in 2009, he'll pass Kiner on the list of most homers in the first 9 seasons. Overall, note how much less impressive this HR list is than the first list above. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling these guys shabby. I'll just take Ty Cobb over Darryl Strawberry.)
Pujols narrowly missed becoming the 4th player in history to amass 1000 RBI over his first 8 seasons:
Cnt Player **RBI** From To Ages G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS Positions Teams +----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+ 1 Ted Williams 1038 1939 1949 20-30 1184 5348 4221 1082 1488 314 56 265 1101 0 376 21 5 0 99 16 13 .353 .488 .642 1.130 *79/1 BOS 2 Joe DiMaggio 1025 1936 1946 21-31 1111 4984 4481 939 1495 263 90 244 463 0 220 26 14 0 55 26 7 .334 .399 .596 .995 *8/79 NYY 3 Al Simmons 1005 1924 1931 22-29 1086 4752 4349 816 1580 315 89 173 292 0 327 13 98 0 0 61 45 .363 .405 .596 1.001 *78/9 PHA 4 Albert Pujols 977 2001 2008 21-28 1239 5382 4578 947 1531 342 13 319 696 154 506 60 1 47 157 45 26 .334 .425 .624 1.049 *37/59D64 STL 5 Earl Averill 892 1929 1936 27-34 1195 5378 4763 924 1547 309 95 190 550 0 345 28 37 0 0 56 48 .325 .398 .549 .947 *8/9 CLE 6 Ralph Kiner 888 1946 1953 23-30 1212 5223 4327 827 1214 167 34 329 870 0 613 22 4 0 101 20 2 .281 .404 .563 .967 *7/83 PIT-TOT 7 Jim Bottomley 885 1922 1929 22-29 1062 4690 4134 711 1354 261 104 146 406 0 337 24 126 0 0 40 15 .328 .391 .547 .938 *3/4 STL 8 Chuck Klein 880 1928 1935 23-30 1057 4677 4236 848 1467 287 56 232 385 0 347 11 45 0 19 58 0 .346 .402 .605 1.007 *97/8 PHI-CHC 9 Joe Medwick 873 1932 1939 20-27 1084 4706 4420 771 1492 353 81 145 241 0 376 18 27 0 106 28 0 .338 .374 .552 .926 *7/89 STL 10 Hank Aaron 863 1954 1961 20-27 1194 5201 4717 829 1506 264 67 253 397 92 442 17 19 51 131 57 25 .319 .371 .565 .936 *987/45 MLN
OK, how about best batting average, first 8 seasons, minimum 4000 PAs?
Cnt Player **BA** PA From To Ages G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS OBP SLG OPS Positions Teams +----+-----------------+---------+-----+----+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+ 1 Ty Cobb .366 4343 1905 1912 18-25 1021 3917 738 1433 230 109 43 684 286 0 0 37 103 0 0 398 0 .414 .513 .927 98/7 DET 2 Al Simmons .363 4752 1924 1931 22-29 1086 4349 816 1580 315 89 173 1005 292 0 327 13 98 0 0 61 45 .405 .596 1.001 *78/9 PHA 3 George Sisler .361 4574 1915 1922 22-29 1047 4155 732 1498 242 100 60 612 273 0 180 30 116 0 0 282 82 .404 .510 .914 *3/198745 SLB 4 Ted Williams .353 5348 1939 1949 20-30 1184 4221 1082 1488 314 56 265 1038 1101 0 376 21 5 0 99 16 13 .488 .642 1.130 *79/1 BOS 5 Jesse Burkett .353 4423 1890 1897 21-28 927 3863 940 1364 174 96 37 530 504 0 230 34 22 0 0 221 0 .432 .477 .909 *79/18 NYG-CLV 6 Wade Boggs .352 5371 1982 1989 24-31 1183 4534 823 1597 314 36 64 523 754 87 339 17 23 43 123 14 22 .443 .480 .923 *5/3D7 BOS 7 Rogers Hornsby .348 4281 1915 1922 19-26 1012 3807 641 1323 211 104 99 638 360 0 335 29 85 0 0 101 42 .408 .536 .944 465/3798 STL 8 Billy Hamilton .348 4378 1888 1895 22-29 901 3656 1039 1274 147 67 26 455 642 0 189 71 9 0 0 638 0 .455 .447 .902 789 KCC-PHI 9 Stan Musial .346 4747 1941 1949 20-28 1072 4133 815 1432 302 108 146 706 565 0 199 21 28 0 82 44 0 .428 .578 1.006 9378 STL 10 Chuck Klein .346 4677 1928 1935 23-30 1057 4236 848 1467 287 56 232 880 385 0 347 11 45 0 19 58 0 .402 .605 1.007 *97/8 PHI-CHC 11 Paul Waner .346 5429 1926 1933 23-30 1205 4753 901 1643 337 128 67 695 538 0 156 27 111 0 10 77 0 .415 .513 .928 *9/387 PIT 12 Lou Gehrig .342 4024 1923 1930 20-27 921 3327 774 1139 248 89 187 811 581 0 414 18 98 0 0 42 45 .443 .639 1.082 *3/97 NYY 13 Honus Wagner .342 4446 1897 1904 23-30 1031 4008 722 1372 275 102 41 750 326 0 0 58 54 0 0 311 0 .400 .493 .893 6953/8471 LOU-PIT 14 Heinie Manush .340 4311 1923 1930 21-28 1048 3865 674 1313 265 84 66 628 262 0 191 46 138 0 0 81 43 .388 .503 .891 *78/93 DET-SLB-TOT 15 Todd Helton .339 4798 1997 2004 23-30 1135 4051 832 1372 328 22 251 836 667 109 542 31 2 47 97 30 23 .432 .616 1.048 *3/79 COL 16 Joe Medwick .338 4706 1932 1939 20-27 1084 4420 771 1492 353 81 145 873 241 0 376 18 27 0 106 28 0 .374 .552 .926 *7/89 STL 17 Hugh Duffy .338 4702 1888 1895 21-28 1005 4256 1041 1438 219 76 73 766 414 0 192 16 16 0 0 413 0 .399 .477 .876 *89/675 CHC-CHI-BOS-BSN 18 Goose Goslin .337 4293 1921 1928 20-27 999 3793 635 1277 212 103 90 730 353 0 248 37 110 0 0 98 45 .399 .518 .917 *7/89 WSH 19 Albert Pujols .334 5382 2001 2008 21-28 1239 4578 947 1531 342 13 319 977 696 154 506 60 1 47 157 45 26 .425 .624 1.049 *37/59D64 STL 20 Joe DiMaggio .334 4984 1936 1946 21-31 1111 4481 939 1495 263 90 244 1025 463 0 220 26 14 0 55 26 7 .399 .596 .995 *8/79 NYY
There's Pujols at #19. He, Helton, and Boggs are the only players from the last 60 years to make the list, and both Helton and Boggs (though great hitters both) had a lot of help from theire home ballparks. Incidentally, just off the list at #21 is Tony Gwynn.
And finally, highest SLG, using the same criteria as BA above:
Cnt Player **SLG** PA From To Ages G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP OPS Positions Teams +----+-----------------+---------+-----+----+----+-----+----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+ 1 Ted Williams .642 5348 1939 1949 20-30 1184 4221 1082 1488 314 56 265 1038 1101 0 376 21 5 0 99 16 13 .353 .488 1.130 *79/1 BOS 2 Lou Gehrig .639 4024 1923 1930 20-27 921 3327 774 1139 248 89 187 811 581 0 414 18 98 0 0 42 45 .342 .443 1.082 *3/97 NYY 3 Albert Pujols .624 5382 2001 2008 21-28 1239 4578 947 1531 342 13 319 977 696 154 506 60 1 47 157 45 26 .334 .425 1.049 *37/59D64 STL 4 Todd Helton .616 4798 1997 2004 23-30 1135 4051 832 1372 328 22 251 836 667 109 542 31 2 47 97 30 23 .339 .432 1.048 *3/79 COL 5 Chuck Klein .605 4677 1928 1935 23-30 1057 4236 848 1467 287 56 232 880 385 0 347 11 45 0 19 58 0 .346 .402 1.007 *97/8 PHI-CHC 6 Frank Thomas .600 4789 1990 1997 22-29 1076 3821 785 1261 246 8 257 854 879 118 582 26 0 63 123 18 15 .330 .452 1.052 *3D CHW 7 Joe DiMaggio .596 4984 1936 1946 21-31 1111 4481 939 1495 263 90 244 1025 463 0 220 26 14 0 55 26 7 .334 .399 .995 *8/79 NYY 8 Al Simmons .596 4752 1924 1931 22-29 1086 4349 816 1580 315 89 173 1005 292 0 327 13 98 0 0 61 45 .363 .405 1.001 *78/9 PHA 9 Manny Ramirez .592 4095 1993 2000 21-28 967 3470 665 1086 237 11 236 804 541 47 780 37 2 45 98 28 24 .313 .407 .999 *9/D CLE 10 Willie Mays .590 4629 1951 1959 20-28 1065 4074 777 1291 204 79 250 709 505 69 435 14 1 35 89 179 53 .317 .391 .981 *8/7 NYG-SFG
There's Pujols at #3.
The man is absolutely incredible.
I also note that Frank Thomas appeared on most of these lists. It seems that 2008, his 19th season, was his last. That means that he and Greg Maddux should be heading to Cooperstown in 5 years. It's a bit early, but not way early, to suggest that Albert Pujols will be joining them there one day.
January 27th, 2009 at 9:44 am
[...] Pujols the greatest?? From the Baseball-Reference.com Stat of the Day Check out the link, it's pretty impressive what Pujols has done in his first 8 years in the [...]
January 27th, 2009 at 10:17 am
And hes only 28 years old!! It's scary to think that he is entering his PRIME. I know Ryan Ludwick is good but can you imagine just how incredible he would be if he had a hitter behind him that actually protected him. I hear he gets the least amount of strikes of any hitter in the leauge, except maybe ryan howard
January 27th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
I don't think it's early for HOF talk at all. Pujols is in. If he dies before his 10th season, I think they give him an Addie Joss exception and let him in.
He's been in his prime since he was a rookie. Some players, like Pujols or Williams, are so good when they first start that they don't necessarily follow a traditional aging curve. They can't really get much better. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if he pulls out a 55 homer, 1.200 OPS season somewhere along the way, just to scare Babe Ruth.
ZimJim, if you look at "Pitch Data Summary" on his B-R page, you can see how many strikes are thrown to him. For some reason it's not updated for 2008 yet, but in '07, 57% of pitches were strikes, while league average is about 63%. I bet it's lower for last season, based on his BB/IBB totals. But not yet in recent Barry Bonds territory (40-50%).
January 27th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Let's hope he has a better second half of his career than Frank Thomas did.
Regarding ultimate comparisons, let's remember that Babe Ruth isn't on these lists.
January 27th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
This picks up on "Youngest Players to Hit X Homers" (Jan. 22, below).
Pujols has averaged K's in the 50's the last 5 seasons. That means that when he isn't walking to first (BB's still trending up), he's making contact -- hard.
January 27th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I assume that strike % counts all batted balls as strikes, regardless of location, right? I wonder what % of balls Barry Bonds saw in the last few years of his career that were actually in the strike zone because I think he swung at a lot of balls out of the zone because they were the best pitches he got to hit.
David, you're right on to mention Frank Thomas. He had 8 excellent years to start his career, just like Pujols, and seemed a lock for the HOF after those 8 (like Pujols.) From his 9th season on, he was significantly worse and never the same, although he's post numerous very solid years. As will likely be the case with Pujols, though, Thomas has performed well enough in the second half of his career to ensure that he'll make the HOF.
January 27th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Andy and David great points about Thomas but I ask you to consider this.
If Thomas had flip flopped his career and done way better in the second half and not in the first half would it be different? recent memory of a player can really take away from their performance in the past, for better or for worse. it just depends on if the hall recognizes this.
January 27th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
I think Thomas' 8 superior seasons, plus 3 or 4 more very good ones, plus 3 or 4 more solid ones, puts him in the HOF, regardless of which order they came in. Certainly those 8 coming in a block puts him in, regardless of when they happened, because he was one of the very best players in baseball in that period. If the 8 had been sprinkled throughout his career, he'd have slightly lower standing due to being superior and dominant some years, but not others, in an unpredictable fashion. I also think that his two big rebound years in 2000 and 2003, which came after his "great eight" ended in 1997, help immensely, by showing that he still had the TALENT--it implies (whether correctly or not) that he was robbed by injuries. That has got to push some voters to think that if not for injuries he would have had FOURTEEN superior years to start his career instead "only" eight. Not too many guys have fallen off from their peak only to have 40-HR seasons later in their careers, much less do it TWICE. And I haven't even addressed his 39-HR, 140 OPS+ season in 2006.
January 27th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Yes, all batted balls should be counted as strikes. Did Bonds chase a lot of pitches? It was my impression that he NEVER swung at anything off the plate, which made it impossible to pitch him, and that's why he walked 8 zillion times a year. Some people probably wanted him to expand his hitting zone when runners were on base, but he wouldn't do it. I think similar things have been said about Williams and the young F. Thomas.
January 27th, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I recall watching games in 2002-2003 timeframe where he swung at pitches a few inches outside the strike zone because they were the only "good" ones he got. Whether he did that in general much, I don't know.
January 27th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
How about his MVP vote placing, in order: 4, 2, 2, 3, 1, 2, 9, 1, second to Bonds in 2002 & 2003 and second to Howard in 2006, I think only Berra had a better 7 year run (at either end of P's 8 years) 7 straight in the top five...
January 27th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
The Prince is certainly showing as one of the greatest hitters of all-time. But I don't think he's quite competitive for #1. Among all hitters (1901-current) through their age 28 year, Albert is 13th in career OPS+, with 170. That's significantly behind Ruth and Ted Williams (219 and 197 respectively), and a bit behind players like Musial, Mantle, Gehrig, Hornsby and Frank Thomas. He's very close to Mize and Foxx. This is extraordinary company, and he doesn't really get the mass-market recognition he deserves. But unless you accept the "players are better today" approach to cross-era evaluations, you can't really place him in the top 3 or 5.
January 27th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
You never know how a player will be remembered if his stats fall off. Ted Williams "fell off" after eight years, too. Actually, it was mostly war, injuries and changes in the game, but his actual totals after the first eight seasons are merely very, very good. They aren't in the same category as the earlier seasons. It's true, Williams' amazing percentages didn't fall off while some of Thomas' did, but let's face it -- Ted Williams in a sense isn't that far off in career path from Thomas or Griffey. So there's hope for Pujols even if he takes a Williams-like "decline." Personally, I don't think he will.
Johnny is also right about Pujols being in his prime from the start. That's so rare, that a player start that way and maintain it. Williams and DiMaggio spoiled multiple generations by making it look so much easier than it really is. Every kid with great raw talent is expected to be an impact player right away. That's just not how baseball usually works.
January 27th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
It should also be noted that by all accounts Pujols is an exceptional defensive first baseman. While I don't think he can really challenge to be the #1 player of all time, it seems he might have a chance to be considered the best at his position. Obviously he still has a lot more work to do. I suppose the consensus would place Gehrig and Foxx atop that list.
January 28th, 2009 at 12:10 am
No doubt Pujols has been just about as good so far as anybody ever, but some of this depends on where you set the bar. Why isn't Willie Keeler at the top of the batting average list? Well, he had *only* about 3900 PA in his first 8 seasons, so he doesn't qualify. Of course, it's to Pujols' credit that, unlike Keeler's first two seasons, Pujols was a regular from the start. Then again, Pujols was 21 when he started, Keeler only 20, and they didn't play 162 games a season in Keeler's day, so it was harder to get up to 4000 PA.
Pujols out-homers Arod, 319 to 241, over their first 8 seasons. On the other hand, through age 28, Arod out-homers Pujols, 381 to 319. It's not clear to me which of these should seem more impressive.
Gehrig had about 980 RBI between ages 21 and 28. He doesn't show up on the list because he played 13 games at age 20 (and he got those 980 despite playing only 10 games at age 21).
January 28th, 2009 at 9:17 am
Gerry--you speak to a larger issue I have with rankings. I would never say more than that an argument can be made that Pujols has had the best first 8 seasons ever. But it's so hard to judge these things. These guys played in such different contexts--so many things have varied from conditioning of the players, approach to the game, quality of team, size of ballpark, etc, the list goes on forever. I think it's very difficult to characterize who the best pitcher of all-time was, or who was the best left fielder, or who was the best hitter.
There is only one "best" in baseball that I think is totally clear, and that is who is the best home run hitter in history. The answer has absolutely GOT to be Babe Ruth, based on two facts: his yearly and career HR totals are impressive in ANY era, and in the era in which he played, his HR totals were absolutely massive as compared to every other player in the league. Do you realize that in 1927, the year Ruth hit 60 HR, the 8 AL teams combined for 379, not including Ruth's 60. That means that an average team hit 47 HR, and Ruth bettered that by about 27%. In 2008, the 14 AL teams combined for 2270 HR, or 162 per team. That means if a single player outhit the average team by 27%, he'd end up with 206 HR.
THAT'S how much better Ruth was than everybody else. We've never seen anybody else who outstripped every other player in MLB in HR by anywhere close to the same margin.
January 28th, 2009 at 9:33 am
This may seem like a stupid question but where is Babe Ruth on this list. He would be atop the HR and SLG lists if I'm not mistaken.
January 28th, 2009 at 11:49 am
remember that babe ruth spent his first few seasons as a full time pitcher.
January 28th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
If you want to compare Pujols to Ruth you need to sum Ruth's first 13 seasons (which gives him 206 more PA than Pujols has now). Ruth is clearly better, but the fact that Pujols doesn't look ridiculous is impressive. I've created a search to compare the two of them side by side:
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/x8tC
January 28th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Nice, Raphy. Actually it's amazing how well Pujols stacks up.
January 28th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Hopefully one day Retrosheet will get back into Ruth's career. I wonder how many times he was intentionally walked before Gehrig arrived?
January 28th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
I don't know how accurate this is, but according to the following link, Ruth was intentionally walked 80 times in 1923 (Gehrig's first year; one in which he barely played.)
http://tinyurl.com/d22ddp
January 28th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
You think Albert could match The Babe on the mound? I don't know enough about making projections but do you think he was headed to a Hall of Fame pitching career?
January 28th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Great find Raphy.
Gehrig's first full season was '25. I don't know when he started hitting cleanup. From 1920-1924, Ruth walked in 21.7% of plate appearances. From 1926-1930 he walked 19.0%. A notable difference, but not huge, and could be influenced by other things besides Gehrig's presence behind him. So I doubt Ruth was getting IBB'd in Bonds numbers. Maybe '23 was an exception (that was his career high in BB, 170).
Ollie, some people have noted that Ruth's K-rate was declining. Even in an era of fewer K's, that was not a good sign, and so maybe he would not have lasted as an effective pitcher that much longer. But maybe he just couldn't pitch as well when he was also playing the OF a lot, and if he had remained mainly a pitcher he would have been fine.
January 28th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
excluding his 69 at bats as a rookie, i count six seasons of 150 or more of ops+ for mike piazza, but he didnt make the list.
January 28th, 2009 at 8:14 pm
Here is where Ruth ranked after 1000 innings.
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/3quw
Certainly impressive, but early results do not guarantee a HOF career. Just ask Frank Tanana.
January 28th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Vincent - Andy's search didn't (can't) exclude any seasons that's why Piazza didn't make the list. Counting 1992 Piazza's first 8 seasons included 5 in which he qualified for the batting title and had on OPS+ of 150 or higher. He missed in '92, '94 and '99.
January 29th, 2009 at 3:16 am
thats what i figured, but still, piazza should be included in this bunch even though PI excludes him. and he did it as a catcher in a predominately pitcher's ballpark,- two factors which make his feat more impressive.
February 8th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
[...] very cherished history from some of the questionable characters that came before him; now, well, a man in St. Louis can expect to gain a lot of new [...]