Batting Stance Twins
Posted by Steve Lombardi on December 16, 2010
So, last night, I'm watching Game 7 of the 1960 World Series on the MLB Network and I see Bill Virdon come up to bat.
Now, to me, Virdon is the former Yankees manager who Bill Sudakis used to make fun of in the locker room. (Yes, I'm a Yankees fan and I started following the game in 1973.) I've never seen Virdon bat, before last night.
And, what do I see? I'm looking at Virdon's stance and it's Pete Rose. From the left side of the plate, they're carbon copies of each other. Anyone else see this?
Related, what batters in baseball history have reminded you of each other because of their batting stance and/or swing? Doesn't have to be exact - could be a part of it - like Craig Counsell and Yaz each holding their bat up high.
Have fun with this...if you'd like to play along.
December 16th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Julio Franco and Kevin Youkilis all day! that ridiculous stance with the bat way over their heads.
December 16th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Sheff and Bonds- mirror images. Except Sheff is more closed and wags the bat faster.
December 16th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
First time Beltre hit a homerun going to one knee it reminded me of Pedroia
December 16th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
I've always thought Derrek Lee and Johnny Damon are pretty similar. Damon might wiggle around a little more but both have that exaggerated open stance.
December 16th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Didn't Rance Mulliniks copy George Brett's stance?
December 16th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Carl Everett was Griffey Jr when hitting left handed and Gary Sheffield when hitting righty.
December 16th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Ryan Howard took Jim Thome's bat pointing thing.... don't know much about the rest of the stance though...l
December 16th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Joey Votto does the Jim Thome 'bat pointing thing' as well.
December 16th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
Jim Thome got the bat-pointing thing from the movie "The Natural" I read earlier this year. (Not sure now where I read it -- probably a Joe Posnanski column.)
I've always thought that Dick McAuliffe and Craig Counsel shared the same holding the bat up high thing, but if I wonder if I actually saw them back to back whether there are obvious differences.
December 16th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
carew and cecil cooper. i believe he copied him
December 16th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Mike Schmidt and Jack Clark
December 16th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Eddie Gaedel and Tony Clark.
December 16th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
@ 9. It was Charlie Manuel's idea that Thome do the "bat pointing thing". During a Spring Training, the guys were watching "The Natural" in the locker room, and Manuel told Thome to try it.
December 16th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Rod Carew and RobinsonCano
December 17th, 2010 at 2:10 am
Was there another player that had similar "fidgety" motions in and out of the batters box than Nomar Garciparra??.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/garcino01.shtml
It would drive me crazy watching him kicking the dirt with his toes in the box and the madding tightening his batting gloves over and over out of the batters box between pitches.
I admit I saw him mostly on TV during the 3 years he played for the Dodgers (2005-2007).
Was he the same way when he played for the Red Sox or Cubs?..
December 17th, 2010 at 6:24 am
David Justice and Dave Winfield often had mirror-image swings of each other, managing their long, upright frames in a similar fashion.
December 17th, 2010 at 6:44 am
LOL @12
December 17th, 2010 at 11:07 am
@1 I can see a comparison to Franco, but Franco's was well over the top, literally and figuratively. Franco would hold the bat very high and over his head while pointing the head at the pitcher. Youkilis isn't nearly that extreme. He holds it high at first, but then slowly brings it down while "sitting" into his stance, similar to Fernando Vina. So,here are some of my similar stances:
Youkilis-Vina/Franco combo
Chipper Jones-Andruw Jones
Vladimir Guerrero-Wily Mo Pena
December 17th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
First time poster here...love this site and the discussions that I've seen on here. As a 33 year old, the discussions here have really opened my mind up to differing thoughts and points of view, so thanks to all who are on here and know much more than I do.
I watched the 1960 WS Game 7 the other night and several things jumped out at me:
1 - How small the players were back then. Mantle was the only guy who I really feel could compete in this day and age. Huge shoulders and arms.
2 - How small Clemente was. It was the first time I ever saw him hit (Mantle also) and man did he step out into the bucket.
3 - Day baseball during the WS. Wish we could see that again.
4 - The strategy was crazy from the start. Casey had guys up in the pen from the first inning...not sure you'll see that again. Also, what about letting Shantz hit in the 8th? Not sure you'd ever see that again either, regardless of the fact that they had a 3 run lead and that he'd singled earlier.
5 - They didn't drag the infield every 3rd inning, which undoubtedly led to the Kubek bad hop. Perhaps someone on here can shed some light on when constant manicuring of the field began.
6 - No batting gloves and no flap helmets. Also noticed some players tossed their helmets aside once on base.
7 - Loved the crazy deliveries and batting stances back then.
Different era indeed, but I loved watching that game. I sure hope MLB Network keeps them coming. For a guy like me who has read all about guys that played back then, it sure puts faces to names.
December 17th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
@19, 704_Brave -- Welcome!
Re: "How small the players were back then." --
If you mean skinny, I get the same feeling every time the Yankee cable channel shows the 1978 game when Ron Guidry struck out 18 Angels. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA197806170.shtml) Even Brian Downing wasn't bulked up yet.
December 17th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
@15, Mike (re: Nomar's batting "tics") --
Mike Hargrove used to step out after almost every pitch, adjusting his batting gloves & uniform -- hence his nickname, The Human Rain Delay.
December 17th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Thanks John.
Yeah, they were really skinny, but short also. I knew Berra was really short, but he looked like a kid out there...and Shantz was even shorter.
And yes, Ron Guidry was skinny as well. In little league I had a Ron Guidry model Wilson glove...still have it somewhere!
December 17th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
@9, Detroit Michael --
After reading your comment on Dick McAuliffe taking his stance with the bat held high, I went searching the web for confirmation of my own memory of McAuliffe's stance -- namely, holding his bent front elbow right in front of his face.
Everything out there mentioned his high bat, but I knew I had once read something that jibed with my memory. I finally found it in (naturally) the New Bill James Historical Abstract:
"... he tucked his right wrist under his chin and held his bat over his head, so it looked as if he were dodging the sword of Damocles in mid-descent. He pointed his left knee at the catcher and his right knee at the pitcher and spread the two as far apart as humanly possible, his right foot balanced on the toes, so that to have lowered his heel two inches would have pulled his knee inward by a foot. He whipped the bat in a sort of violent pinwheel...." (emphasis added)
The rest of the passage on McAuliffe, whom James he rated as the #22 second baseman of all time, is also worth reading, too. I'm constantly reminded that, as innovative as his ideas have been, it's just as much his great writing that made James as influential as he has been.
http://books.google.com/books?id=3uSbqUm8hSAC&pg=PA497&lpg=PA497&dq=bill+james+historical+abstract+%2B+dick+mcauliffe&source=bl&ots=1kt3n64Fyf&sig=TW0yMTZElsYdt5xWpnQEFOr1uLc&hl=en&ei=Lr8LTc3LCoT58Aanz-iuDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
December 17th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Surprisingly, two with almost identical stances were Cobb and Ruth. In fact, I believe that they and Honus Wagner all had similiar stances, only Wagner was a right hander.
December 17th, 2010 at 8:36 pm
Yeah, but I don't think Ruth choked up like Cobb did. Sometimes he choked 6-8"!
December 17th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
@ 6
That's the Truth!
December 18th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
I remember seeing a video of Griffey's swing next to Russell Branyan's when he was first playing in the majors and they were identical. Of course he may have changed it over the years
December 18th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Ichiro and Stan Musial. Each is wound up like a spring, then they launch themselves into the pitch. No one would ever teach their swings, but it works for them, obviously.
Also, Reggie Smith used to hold his bat aloft ala Yaz.
December 19th, 2010 at 8:17 am
Cleon Jones and Richard Hidalgo looked spookily alike when following thru on their swings
December 19th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
@ 19
4 - The strategy was crazy from the start. Casey had guys up in the pen from the first inning...not sure you'll see that again.
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It was Game 7. Doesn't happen all that often, and in an often high scoring series, you need to have all hands on deck, so to speak.
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Few days late to the party...just saw this post and was stunned nobody mentioned Game 7 pinch-hitter Hector Lopez and future fellow Yankee Alfonso Soriano's IDENTICAL stances.
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Also, @ 15...
VERY early (1995-1996) Derek Jeter did a lot of fidgeting, and had a similar back-and-forth toe tap.
And @ 20, when watching the Guidry game...has anyone in the expansion era choked up nearly as much as Angels SS Dave Chalk?