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40 Responses to “POLL: Which is the dumber injury?”
I agree. At least Coghlan was doing something that is both accepted in baseball culture and was an attempt at building team morale by pieing a teammate. K-Rod's was a violent act in public that earned him a criminal record. No contest.
Ditto @1 & @2. Coghlan isn't the first one to even get hurt this season while celebrating a win (see Kendry Morales). K-Rod's injury takes the cake (or pie) and I think his injury is a good example of how "instant karma's gonna get you".
Coghlan's injury wasn't stupid at all. It was a freak injury. 99.9% of the time someone's throws a pie in baseball, no one is hurt. That's like calling it stupid if someone pinches a nerve while pulling up their sock. It's not stupid, it's just that shit happens sometimes.
#6 I didn't include Morales because that was a totally freak injury. Morales pounced pretty hard on home plate but not in a way I found egregious or negligent.
#7 I don't agree--throwing pies is needless. If you're going to do it, you'd better damn well make sure your feet are planted and you're careful. If not, you pay the price and screw over your team.
Morales got hurt because Juan Rivera hooked him when he jumped in the air, causing him to land on one leg. So not only has Rivera been replacement level with his own performance, he cost the Angels about 3 wins here too.
Throwing pies is needless, as is a player jumping full strength on home plate. But both are things that are virtually everyday occurrences. When someone gets injured doing something that happens as often as these do, it's tough to single the individual out as dumb.
Regardless, K-Rod should win this by a sizable margin.
I don't really think that there's so much of a difference in the commonness/silliness/acceptability of the shaving cream pie and the craziness that was going on around home in the Morales game. At any rate, you're imposing your judgment of the situations on us by including Coghlan and not Morales, which somewhat defeats the point of polling.
Oh give me a break. Coghlan and K-Rod were both injured after game, Morales during a game. Tons of other players have been injured in other freak ways, too. If you don't like my poll, then don't vote.
It sounds like this poll only exists becasue Andy truly finds the various walk-off celebrations "needless".
I am not sure I 100% agree with that. Obviously they are not mandatory toward the winning of any particular game, but I do think that kind of thing (i.e. the pie throwing) is a boost to a team's overall personality/morale. I do believe that the Yankee's pie throwing in 2009 helped give them a boost to liven up a classically stuffy organization. Obviously, it was not the main reason for them winning the World Series, but I do think it had enough of a positive effect, that it should be included on a list of reasons that particular team was so successful. And if you factor in that it is AJ Burnett throwing the pies, the positive aspect WELL outweighs any negatives, such as AJ getting injured. 🙂
"Risk of serious injury" is a little strong considering it has happened 1 time over the life of pie throwing. I would suspect that at least one person has been injured during anything you could list that falls under the category of "other ways of boosting morale, having fun, and celebrating".
We talked about Kendry Morales above, and I am sure someone has been hurt (or could thoeretically be hurt) in a Pile-up celebration at the end of the League Championship Series that could lessen/preclude their performance in the World Series. Not to mention getting a DUI or accident after going out for a few beers with other players, or hurting your wrist pitching horshoes at a team BBQ. A freak thing could happen at any time, but I don't think we should stop any of those events. And definitely not compare them as the same level of stupidity as commiting aggrevated assault on a supposed loved one's family member.
I think Rodriguez's injury is dumber, if for no other reason than what it might cost him. It might give the Mets grounds to void his contract which is likely worth another $33 million (assuming he would finish 55 games next season and vest the option), which is probably twice what he could get on the open market the next two seasons. Of course, Coghlan has yet to cash in on what has been a promising start to a career and who knows how the knee injury will affect his future playing abilities.
Aside from the monetary aspects, throwing a pie is obviously unnecessary, but not to the extent that beating up your girlfriend's father is unnecessary given the context. There are foreseeable problems from the pie, though the knee injury wouldn't seem to be one of them(I had thought about the dangers to the recipients eyes, etc. before this happened). Injury from punching someone to your hand or injury from them punching you back is an obvious risk of attacking someone.
From a public relations standpoint, no one is going to think you are a despicable human being because you injured your knee throwing a pie in your teammate's face.
I suppose it depends on wht you mean by dumber. If you mean which player was acting dumber when getting injured, it's clearly K-Rod. If you mean which circumstances leading up to the injury are more ridiculous, then it's Coghlan. Hurting your thumb in a fight is not a dumb injury, that's what happens when you fight. Hurting your knee throwing a pie? That's like drowning while eating soup.
@16, being a Phillies fan I recall that Brad Lidge hurt his knee in the pileup after striking out Eric Hinske to win the World Series. By some accounts it did lead at least partially to his, shall we say, "reduction in effectiveness," in 2009.
@#3 Frank, although I don't agree with violence, that is probably the funniest thing I've ever read on this blog.
Usually when I post, I don't have much to say that you guys probably don't already know, but I must agree that K-Rod's injury is dumber. At least Coghlan wasn't intentionally inflicting harm on anyone. However, being a die-hard Husker fan (I live in Nebraska), seems like the violent guys help their teams more (see Lawrence Phillips, Jason Peters...etc)
Yes that was a poor joke, if anyone here is from NE they probably understand that.
Fighting doesn't solve much. A pie to the face was meant to bring team unity. Both injuries are kind of dumb, actually; but the fighting isn't worth it. If it's over a girl, it still isn't worth it. Leave her if you must.
Manuel claims that if we knew K-Rod's side of the story, we'd have a much different take on the situation. It's really hard to know exactly what happened in the altercation, so I reserve judgement until more info comes to light. I don't know anything that really justifies violence, but people (particularly men) are going to fight. It's not really that outside the ordinary. K-Rod is getting a lot of flack because he's become a bit of a whipping boy, especially in NY, because of his (perceived) lackluster performance at times, his demeanor, his salary, etc, etc, etc. The narrative on him is that he's a hot head who can't be counted on, so when a situation arises that seems to support that narrative, we ignore any possible nuance. What would be the reaction if this happened to Rivera?
On a related note, I just saw a replay of Thome's walk off. As he approaches homeplate and the mob of helmetless teammates, he throws his helmet high into the air. You can actually see the umpire track the flight and start to run out of the way. Imagine if it had landed on someone? Yet another idiotic celebration that need not happen.
I am not equating Coghlan's behavior with K-Rod's behavior. Assault is terrible and unacceptable. My point is just that they are both dumb in their own ways, especially when looking at it from just the team's perspective that each player made himself unavailable to play for an extended period of time.
Yes, I was trying a little reverse psychology there. Violence in ALL contexts is not stupid; it's sick. Like those who would claim rape to be a crime of passion -- it's hate, pure and simple.
K-Rod was clearly much "more stupider". Criminal, violent, worse personal & team consequences...It is unlikely there is a justification. Only if the older man assaulted him 1st is there a mitigation-& even Pedro only incapacitated his inferior attacker.
Lee, how could it cost the team 3 wins? If you consider something like WAR, over the less than 1/4 of the season remaining, Coghlan would have to be close to as good as the best season in history, compared to a replacement player. Meaning he would be worth over 12 wins in the course of '10.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:43 am
No question it's K-Rod, if for nothing else, because he was committing a crime in the process of doing it.
August 17th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
I agree. At least Coghlan was doing something that is both accepted in baseball culture and was an attempt at building team morale by pieing a teammate. K-Rod's was a violent act in public that earned him a criminal record. No contest.
August 17th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
Coughlin's, juston principle. Anyone who called K-Rod's injury "Dumb" never met any of my old girlfriend's fathers.
August 17th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Depends how you look at it. Getting hurt from throwing a punch is believable. But throwing a pie..?
August 17th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Ditto @1 & @2. Coghlan isn't the first one to even get hurt this season while celebrating a win (see Kendry Morales). K-Rod's injury takes the cake (or pie) and I think his injury is a good example of how "instant karma's gonna get you".
August 17th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Kendry Morales' walk-off home run celebration injury should be included in the contest.
August 17th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Coghlan's injury wasn't stupid at all. It was a freak injury. 99.9% of the time someone's throws a pie in baseball, no one is hurt. That's like calling it stupid if someone pinches a nerve while pulling up their sock. It's not stupid, it's just that shit happens sometimes.
August 17th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
#6 I didn't include Morales because that was a totally freak injury. Morales pounced pretty hard on home plate but not in a way I found egregious or negligent.
#7 I don't agree--throwing pies is needless. If you're going to do it, you'd better damn well make sure your feet are planted and you're careful. If not, you pay the price and screw over your team.
August 17th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Morales got hurt because Juan Rivera hooked him when he jumped in the air, causing him to land on one leg. So not only has Rivera been replacement level with his own performance, he cost the Angels about 3 wins here too.
August 17th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Throwing pies is needless, as is a player jumping full strength on home plate. But both are things that are virtually everyday occurrences. When someone gets injured doing something that happens as often as these do, it's tough to single the individual out as dumb.
Regardless, K-Rod should win this by a sizable margin.
August 17th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
I don't really think that there's so much of a difference in the commonness/silliness/acceptability of the shaving cream pie and the craziness that was going on around home in the Morales game. At any rate, you're imposing your judgment of the situations on us by including Coghlan and not Morales, which somewhat defeats the point of polling.
August 17th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Oh give me a break. Coghlan and K-Rod were both injured after game, Morales during a game. Tons of other players have been injured in other freak ways, too. If you don't like my poll, then don't vote.
August 17th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
K-Rod because of the reasons above.
It sounds like this poll only exists becasue Andy truly finds the various walk-off celebrations "needless".
I am not sure I 100% agree with that. Obviously they are not mandatory toward the winning of any particular game, but I do think that kind of thing (i.e. the pie throwing) is a boost to a team's overall personality/morale. I do believe that the Yankee's pie throwing in 2009 helped give them a boost to liven up a classically stuffy organization. Obviously, it was not the main reason for them winning the World Series, but I do think it had enough of a positive effect, that it should be included on a list of reasons that particular team was so successful. And if you factor in that it is AJ Burnett throwing the pies, the positive aspect WELL outweighs any negatives, such as AJ getting injured. 🙂
August 17th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
I totally disagree. There are lots of other ways of boosting morale, having fun, and celebrating that don't involve risk of serious injury.
August 17th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Both of these make Sammy Sosa's injury from a few years ago where he sneezed his way onto the DL seem rather legitimate.
August 17th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
"Risk of serious injury" is a little strong considering it has happened 1 time over the life of pie throwing. I would suspect that at least one person has been injured during anything you could list that falls under the category of "other ways of boosting morale, having fun, and celebrating".
We talked about Kendry Morales above, and I am sure someone has been hurt (or could thoeretically be hurt) in a Pile-up celebration at the end of the League Championship Series that could lessen/preclude their performance in the World Series. Not to mention getting a DUI or accident after going out for a few beers with other players, or hurting your wrist pitching horshoes at a team BBQ. A freak thing could happen at any time, but I don't think we should stop any of those events. And definitely not compare them as the same level of stupidity as commiting aggrevated assault on a supposed loved one's family member.
August 17th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Hey Andy,
"If you don't like my poll, then don't vote."
If you don't like your poll being criticized, don't post it somewhere with an open comments section.
August 17th, 2010 at 2:19 pm
I have no problem with the criticism--that's just my response.
August 17th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
I think Rodriguez's injury is dumber, if for no other reason than what it might cost him. It might give the Mets grounds to void his contract which is likely worth another $33 million (assuming he would finish 55 games next season and vest the option), which is probably twice what he could get on the open market the next two seasons. Of course, Coghlan has yet to cash in on what has been a promising start to a career and who knows how the knee injury will affect his future playing abilities.
Aside from the monetary aspects, throwing a pie is obviously unnecessary, but not to the extent that beating up your girlfriend's father is unnecessary given the context. There are foreseeable problems from the pie, though the knee injury wouldn't seem to be one of them(I had thought about the dangers to the recipients eyes, etc. before this happened). Injury from punching someone to your hand or injury from them punching you back is an obvious risk of attacking someone.
From a public relations standpoint, no one is going to think you are a despicable human being because you injured your knee throwing a pie in your teammate's face.
August 17th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
I suppose it depends on wht you mean by dumber. If you mean which player was acting dumber when getting injured, it's clearly K-Rod. If you mean which circumstances leading up to the injury are more ridiculous, then it's Coghlan. Hurting your thumb in a fight is not a dumb injury, that's what happens when you fight. Hurting your knee throwing a pie? That's like drowning while eating soup.
August 17th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
@16, being a Phillies fan I recall that Brad Lidge hurt his knee in the pileup after striking out Eric Hinske to win the World Series. By some accounts it did lead at least partially to his, shall we say, "reduction in effectiveness," in 2009.
August 17th, 2010 at 4:28 pm
Frank Clingenpeel (#3)
I hope you're just trying to be funny. Assault for any reason goes beyond just being dumb.
What I do find funny is considering the pie-in-the-face as a dangerous, unwarranted, activity. Clowns around the world are mortified!
I would think pounding and jumping on each other in those increasingly-staged "celebrations" at home plate is much more dangerous.
August 17th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
I'm sure Dave Dravecky agrees, especially whenever he pins up his sleeve.
August 17th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Does there really even need to be a poll on this one?!
August 17th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
coghlan, because k-rod's injury isn't real and therefore doesn't qualify for the question for technical reasons.
August 17th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Milton Bradley when he was injured after reacting to a call of first base umpire.
August 17th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
@#3 Frank, although I don't agree with violence, that is probably the funniest thing I've ever read on this blog.
Usually when I post, I don't have much to say that you guys probably don't already know, but I must agree that K-Rod's injury is dumber. At least Coghlan wasn't intentionally inflicting harm on anyone. However, being a die-hard Husker fan (I live in Nebraska), seems like the violent guys help their teams more (see Lawrence Phillips, Jason Peters...etc)
Yes that was a poor joke, if anyone here is from NE they probably understand that.
August 17th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
K-Rod is dumber, Coghlan is funnier.
August 17th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
Andy (#23),
I just watched a video presentation about Dravecky's travails: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-CHd7J2rfA
It's as devastating to watch now as when I first saw it.
August 17th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Fighting doesn't solve much. A pie to the face was meant to bring team unity. Both injuries are kind of dumb, actually; but the fighting isn't worth it. If it's over a girl, it still isn't worth it. Leave her if you must.
August 17th, 2010 at 11:58 pm
I vote for Morales.
August 18th, 2010 at 12:32 am
I can't believe anyone voted for the pie
August 18th, 2010 at 3:33 am
Coglan has the dumber injury.
Rodriguez has the dumber reason for being injured.
August 18th, 2010 at 7:56 am
Manuel claims that if we knew K-Rod's side of the story, we'd have a much different take on the situation. It's really hard to know exactly what happened in the altercation, so I reserve judgement until more info comes to light. I don't know anything that really justifies violence, but people (particularly men) are going to fight. It's not really that outside the ordinary. K-Rod is getting a lot of flack because he's become a bit of a whipping boy, especially in NY, because of his (perceived) lackluster performance at times, his demeanor, his salary, etc, etc, etc. The narrative on him is that he's a hot head who can't be counted on, so when a situation arises that seems to support that narrative, we ignore any possible nuance. What would be the reaction if this happened to Rivera?
On a related note, I just saw a replay of Thome's walk off. As he approaches homeplate and the mob of helmetless teammates, he throws his helmet high into the air. You can actually see the umpire track the flight and start to run out of the way. Imagine if it had landed on someone? Yet another idiotic celebration that need not happen.
August 18th, 2010 at 8:26 am
I just want to clear things up a bit.
I am not equating Coghlan's behavior with K-Rod's behavior. Assault is terrible and unacceptable. My point is just that they are both dumb in their own ways, especially when looking at it from just the team's perspective that each player made himself unavailable to play for an extended period of time.
August 18th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
I go with K-Rod's being dumber. It may end up costing him millions. He lost control of himself, lost his temper and screwed himself and his team.
August 18th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Jeff
August 18th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Jeff W.,
Yes, I was trying a little reverse psychology there. Violence in ALL contexts is not stupid; it's sick. Like those who would claim rape to be a crime of passion -- it's hate, pure and simple.
August 19th, 2010 at 2:06 am
K-Rod was clearly much "more stupider". Criminal, violent, worse personal & team consequences...It is unlikely there is a justification. Only if the older man assaulted him 1st is there a mitigation-& even Pedro only incapacitated his inferior attacker.
Lee, how could it cost the team 3 wins? If you consider something like WAR, over the less than 1/4 of the season remaining, Coghlan would have to be close to as good as the best season in history, compared to a replacement player. Meaning he would be worth over 12 wins in the course of '10.
August 19th, 2010 at 9:39 am
I was talking about the Morales injury which happened May 29, with about 2/3 of the season left.