The Cycle of Baseball: Garret Anderson, Jay Gibbons, and Carlos Delgado
Posted by Andy on August 9, 2010
Players come and go all the time in Major League Baseball--it's all one big cycle. Click through for some notable recent changes.
- Garret Anderson was designated for assignment by the Dodgers. He hit terribly this year with a .181 BA and 29 OPS+. (Yes, 29--there are 14 pitchers, minimum 20 plate appearances, hitting better.) Based on his age and his recent performance, I think it's likely Anderson has played his last game in the majors. Angels fans used to rave about this guy and indeed he was excellent in 2002 and 2003 (over 5.0 WAR each year). But his career OPS+ sits at 102 and his career WAR of 27.2 puts him alongside Scott Fletcher and Raul Mondesi. He's just ahead of Von Hayes and just behind Dave Henderson. I feel like those players are decent comps for Anderson--good players who had a number of solid years but are clearly not close to the Hall of Fame.
- Jay Gibbons' long road back did actually lead to the majors as he took Anderson's roster spot with the Dodgers. For a while, it looked like Gibbons was going to join the list of Rule V Draft steals, as the Orioles swiped him from the Blue Jays and he had some nice seasons early in his career. He peaked, however, in 2005 with a 2.3 WAR (118 OPS+) season where he drove in only 79 runs despite 26 homers and a .277 BA. (That's probably more his teammates' fault...) Gibbons was suspended for alleged use of HGH and released by the Orioles. He then proceeded to write letters to each major-league team asking for another chance. After playing in independent ball in 2009, the Dodgers gave him a shot this year and he responded with a .969 OPS in the minors, including 19 HR and 83 RBI in 94 games.
- Carlos Delgado signed a deal with the Red Sox and, after some conditioning in the minors, will take over for Kevin Youkilis at first base. Delgado is an interesting case regarding the Hall of Fame. His raw numbers suggest he's just a touch shy--a 138 career OPS+, blank ink of just 8, gray ink of 124. For those who like magic numbers, he didn't hit .300 (only .280) or hit 500 HR (only 473) and has just over 2,000 career hits. His career WAR puts him above just a few of the worst HOFers, such as Phil Rizzuto and Roger Bresnahan. His career rates are likely to go down after he gets back to the majors. However, if he sticks around long enough to hit 27 more homers, my guess is he'll make the Hall of Fame (undeservingly.)
Let's hear your comments on Delgado, but also please list any good Rule V Draft picks you can remember.
Also, as a strange aside, did you know there are minor leaugers with the names Scott Fletcher and Raul Mondesi?
August 9th, 2010 at 9:25 am
Roberto Clemente was a Rule V draftee though I imagine the rules were a lot different back then. Off the top of my head, the best rule V draftee in recent times would be Johan Santana.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:56 am
Joakim Soria is a Rule V pick.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:04 am
If Delgado gets in, then you have to put in Fred McGriff as well. They wouldn't be the worst selections for the HOF by far, but they are far less deserving than other first basemen waiting for enshrinement like Dick Allen & Keith Hernandez. I'd put them about on par with Will Clark.
Garret Anderson is a good guy & decent player despite some holes in his overall game. A Hall of Famer he is not.
And it's nice to see Jay Gibbons get a second chance. He made a mistake & paid a steep price for it.
And Ed, I think you're on the wrong thread.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:05 am
Opps, sorry Ed, I just noticed the Rule V comment at the end of the article. My bad.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:06 am
What are "blank ink" and "gray ink?" Why not be more specific so as not to beg questions like this?
August 9th, 2010 at 11:16 am
I was hoping that Anderson would play a few more years. He has put up some good hit totals for his career. I hope he lands with a playoff bound team.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:18 am
Stu, I'm actually being quite specific. Look on any player page, scroll down, and you can see gray and black ink totals for times leading the league or being among the league leaders in major stat categories. Delgado being so low here suggests that he was not among the very best hitters for many years.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:34 am
Shane Victorino was a Rule V Pick. Go Phils.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:43 am
Carlos Delgado is an interesting case. He would definitely need the 500 homers to get in. I just noticed he is only 26 extra base hits away from 1,000 career. That is pretty select company. When you take a look at that list, virtually every guy on that list is a Hall of Famer or will be Hall of Famer. The only guys I could not see making it on that list is Luis Gonzalez and the guys linked to steroids may not make it at all. If you look at the career line numbers for McGriff to Delgado, they are about even. However, Delgado was a much better run producer than McGriff. McGriff drove in 1550 runs in 2,460 games, while Delgado drove in 1,512 runs in 2035 games.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Blue Jays flash-in-the-pan George Bell was a Rule V draftee.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Mcgriff has more career value than Delgado but at their peak they had roughly the same value. Two well below average fielding first baseman for most of their respective careers, which really raises the question as to why weren't they switched to DH. I think McGriff switched to DH towards the end but Delgado mainly stayed at first on National League clubs.
As far as HOF 1b go, Tony Perez matches closely to Mcgriff and Delgado matches up to Orlando Cepeda. I think that was the problem with electing Perez and Cepeda because there are 9 first basemen not in the HOF that have basically the same value as Perez and Cepeda: Cash, McGriff, Camilli, Berkman, Delgado, Hodges, Mattingly, Grace and J. Fournier.
Then you have the First Basemen not in the HOF that were much better than Perez & Cepeda among others: Pujols, Bagwell, Thomas, J. Thome, D. Allen, M. McGwire, K. Hernandez, Palmeiro, Helton, Olerud, Giambi, and Will Clark.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Imagine how bad Delgado will be at 1B for Boston later this year. So much for run prevention.
August 9th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
I'm not a big fan of Black Ink/Gray Ink because it's skewed towards players who played when there were less teams in the majors. It's a lot harder to lead the league or come in the top 10 when you're in a 16 team league like the National League has been for the past 10 odd years than it was to lead the National League back in the 50's when there were only 8 teams.
Plus it's skewed against players who hit in pitcher's parks. It's lot harder to lead the league hitting in the Astrodome or Jack Murphy stadium than it was to lead the league hitting in Fenway Park or Wrigley.
Also it's skewed towards a specialist and against players who do a bunch of things well
I think Ralph Kiner's career gets overrated because of those first two points. Same thing for Chuck Klein.
Then you get things like Stuffy Sternwiess having a 26/27 in black ink where 27 is HOF average. Sternwiess is nowhere near HOF average. Lip Pike is 26/27, George Foster is 26/27, Cecil Fielder is 24/27, Benny Kauf is 23/27, Juan Pierre is 21/27.
Then on the flip side, Joe Morgan is 15/27, Robin Yount is 14/27, Ryne Sandberg 14/27, Al Kaline 12/27, Eddie Murray is 11/27, Brooks Robinson is 10/27, Dave Winfield 4/27, Ozzie Smith is 2/27, Carton Fisk 1/27.
Then it skews against catchers, Yogi Berra has a 0/27 black ink score.
August 9th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Dan Uggla was Rule V'ed from the d-backs and is now the all-time marlin's hr leader
August 9th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
From Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_Draft
Hall of Famers
* Roberto Clemente
[edit] All Stars
* George Bell
* Paul Blair
* Bobby Bonilla
* Jody Davis
* Darrell Evans
* Kelly Gruber
* Josh Hamilton
* Willie Hernández
* Dave Hollins
* John Hudek Selected in minor league portion.
* Dave May
* Evan Meek
* Mike Morgan
* Jeff Nelson
* Scott Podsednik Selected in minor league portion.
* Bip Roberts
* Johan Santana
* Joakim Soria
* Manny Trillo Selected in minor league portion.
* Derrick Turnbow
* Dan Uggla
* Shane Victorino (twice)
* Fernando Viña
[edit] Others
* Luis Ayala
* Scott McNeil
* Kimera Bartee
* Miguel Batista
* Jared Burton
* Everth Cabrera
* Marcos Carvajal
* Fabio Castro
* Doug Corbett
* Kory DeHaan
* Lenny DiNardo
* Jim Duckworth
* Vaughn Eshelman
* Jesús Flores
* Jay Gibbons
* Luis A. Gonzalez
* Jason Grilli
* Tyler Johnson
* David Lamb
* Wilfredo Ledezma
* Manuel Lee
* Graeme Lloyd
* Hector Luna
* Shane Mack
* Matt Mantei
* Juan Mateo
* Henry Owens Selected in minor league portion.
* Josh Phelps
* Damian Rolls
* Victor Santos
* Chris Shelton
* Andy Sisco
* Adam Stern
* Jason Szuminski
* Willie Upshaw
* Lino Urdaneta
* Eric Valent
* Wesley Wright
[edit] Drafted, but returned or traded before start of season
* Colter Bean
* Frank Brooks
* Frank Catalanotto
* Cecil Cooper
* Callix Crabbe
* Anthony Dion
* Joey Espada
* Javier López
* Mike Myers
* Ronny Paulino
* James Vermilyea
* Fernando Viña
* John Wetteland
* Josh Hamilton
[edit] Drafted, then traded to the drafting team, nullifying the draft
* R.A. Dickey
* Alejandro Machado
* Marshall McDougall
* Levale Speigner
* Willy Taveras
* Mitch Williams
* Jason Jones
* Evan Meek
August 9th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
As an Angles fan, I always liked Garret Anderson. Back in 02/03 I felt he was an underrated guy. Over 8 years he averaged 157 games, 41 doubles and the last 4 of those years averaged 30 home runs, 120 RBI. He was a career .299 hitter at that time. Basically he was out there every day driving in runs. Every team needs a player like that, especially if they don't have a superstar like Pujols or A-Rod. Unfortunately injuries started to set in and the Angels were right to let him go in 2008. I hoped he would go somewhere else and reach 3000 hits but his productivity has dropped right off. He's not a hall of famer but I'll remember him fondly. Angels all time leader in hits, runs, 2B, TB, RBI, XBH, TOB.
Delgado was better but has similarities - I don't think many people would think of him as a hall of famer but the guy has some pretty good numbers. 11 30HR seasons (only 8 players can better that), 1500 RBIs. It'll be interesting to see if he can produce for Boston.
August 9th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
It's pretty cool that Evan Meek makes the lists of both Rule V All-Stars and Rule V returnees. It looks as if he was returned to the Rays in May 2008 and then immediately re-purchased by the Pirates so that Tampa Bay could receive a purchase price higher than the Rule V price; Pittsburgh then demoted Meek to the minors for the rest of the 2008 season, which they could not have done if his Rule V status had remained unchanged. Basically, Meek was returned to his original team because his new team wanted him. Gotta love baseball's administrative rules.
One other fun point about the Meek transactions: When the Pirates returned Meek to Tampa Bay, he was going back to a team with a name different from the one he'd played for previously. Tampa Bay dropped the "Devil" from its team name after Meek was drafted and before he was returned.
August 9th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
In the time that I've lived in the Philadelphia area and followed the Phillies, their best success in the Rule V draft has been with switch hitters who have spent some time in the Padres system before joining the Phils. Here's hoping that Shane Victorino eventually has more success with the team than Dave Hollins. In fact, he probably has already surpassed Hollins.
Speaking of major league teams in Southern California, during this period of time, the Phillies have lost a relief pitcher to the Angels in the Rule V draft, Derrick Turnbow, and this year now have a relief pitcher they selected from the Angels in the most recent Rule V draft, David Herndon.
August 10th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
This may be the Blue Jay fan in me talking, but I'd hardly call George Bell a flash in the pan. He won one (arguably undeserved) MVP, and got votes in five other seasons.
August 10th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Pretty sure he was being facetious, Phil.
August 10th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
As per the Wikipedia link, it's Rule 5, not Rule V.
August 11th, 2010 at 7:26 am
Josh Hamilton was a Rule V pick by the Cubs, who then traded his rights to the Reds. At the time, it was nice to help them out...until Joey Votto decided to open his freaking mouth.