15 Responses to “Pure Backstops Who Can Stick”

1. Johnny Twisto Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 9:58 am

   I analyzed Posada a while back and decided if he can maintain his bat through 2011, he'll have a pretty good argument. Right now his career's probably still a little short, considering his deficiencies in almost all non-batting areas.

2. salvo Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 1:21 pm

   Not to be too nit-picky, but I have Johnny Bench at catcher for only 79% of his career games (I checked because I remember him playing a lot of the time at 3b).

   I'd like to see the "1500 games played" requirement be changed to "1500 games played in the field, with at least 80% being at catcher," so that you don't lose a catching workshouse like Ted Simmons, who played catcher in 87% (1771 out of 2035) of his games in the field, but had another 297 games at DH, bringing his total pct down bwlow 80%.

3. salvo Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 1:24 pm

   Re: Bench, never mind. I double-counted games in which he played multiple positions, so he did in fact play at catcher in 80.7% of the games in which he appeared.

4. Zachary Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 4:52 pm

   The question, in my mind, comes down to what people think about Carlton Fisk. Why is Fisk a Hall of Famer? Was it mostly because he was great in Boston? How big a factor was his longevity? If you compare Posada's 2000-2007 seasons with Fisk's Boston years, the sample size is very similar and while the results are close, they are almost certainly in Posada's favor. (I particularly like that Posada's OBP is very, very high for a catcher, and he still has good pop.) I think that if he is productive for another two or three seasons, it'll be a fairly open and shut case, but it wouldn't surprise me if the BBWAA said he'd already done enough.

5. kalarson Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 4:59 pm

   I'm curious as to how many catchers have met all of these requirements except for the 100 OPS+

6. Rich Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 7:12 pm

   I'm surprised you'd say Piazza is a lock, but not Posada. Jorge played for the Yankees. New York players always get special consideration cause of the stupid "mystique" of the Yankees. Piazza should be a lock, but some writers probably think he did steroids.

7. Rich Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 7:12 pm

   Jorge plays*

8. Johnny Twisto Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 8:24 pm

   Who got elected due to Yankees mystique? Not Mattingly. Not Keller. Not Maris. Not Howard. Not Munson. Not Guidry.

9. Dan Franzen Says:
   March 31st, 2010 at 8:35 pm

   Rizzuto?

10. bdunc8 Says:
    March 31st, 2010 at 8:47 pm

    The next couple of HoF elections are going to be very interesting. But, at this point it seems clear than no one can be considered a "lock" if they have been linked to steroids. And Piazza certainly has:

    "He's a guy who did it, and everybody knows it," says Reggie Jefferson, the longtime major league first baseman. "It's amazing how all these names, like Roger Clemens, are brought up, yet Mike Piazza goes untouched."

    "There was nothing more obvious than Mike on steroids," says another major league veteran who played against Piazza for years. "Everyone talked about it, everyone knew it. Guys on my team, guys on the Mets. A lot of us came up playing against Mike, so we knew what he looked like back in the day. Frankly, he sucked on the field. Just sucked. After his body changed, he was entirely different. 'Power from nowhere,' we called it."

    When asked, on a scale of 1 to 10, to grade the odds that Piazza had used performance enhancers, the player doesn't pause.

    "A 12," he says. "Maybe a 13."

11. Johnny Twisto Says:
    April 1st, 2010 at 1:08 am

    Yeah, I figured Rizzuto would be the guy mentioned. Did he get elected because he was a Yankee? Who can say? Maybe he got elected because he remained in the public eye as a broadcaster, and had a loyal group of supporters pushing for his election for many years. Or maybe he got elected because if one considers that he lost three prime seasons to the war, suffered from malaria after returning home, and was an outstanding defender, there's more to his case than the numbers appear to show.

    Anyway, Rizzuto's election alone doesn't prove anything about how the electorate considers Yankees. I listed a bunch of players for whom cases could be made, but who haven't been elected. Are there a lot of Yankees in the HOF who don't belong? Combs? He's more a case of inflated '20s numbers, imo. How do people expect Bernie Williams to do? I doubt he'll get many votes, but there's certainly a HOF case that could be made for him too.

12. Zachary Says:
    April 1st, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    I'd actually like some, you know, evidence before throwing Piazza out. The outrageously egotistical Reggie Jefferson and an opponent are not the best sources. Piazza was a home run hitter from day one (just look at his minor league stats), his numbers were never preposterous, and he fell off in his mid-30s before the big testing started. He also wasn't mentioned in the Mitchell Report, for what that's worth. None of that screams 'Roider!' to me, so until there's some evidence, I won't hold it against him. As it stands, he is - by far, I think - the best hitting catcher in major league history.

13. bdunc8 Says:
    April 1st, 2010 at 5:45 pm

    I wasn't necessarily saying Piazza should be in or out. But, I'm guessing HoF voters will say "out". Personally, I think he should be in, along with Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc. Jeff Pearlman had some first hand accounts about Piazza's alleged steroid use that he included in "The Rocket That Fell To Earth". That is where those quotes came from. A reporter claims that Piazza actually admitted his steroid use to him. This isn't hard evidence, but usually where there's smoke, there's fire.

14. Zachary Says:
    April 1st, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Piazza has never been officially linked to steroids. I think the writers will give that far, far more weight.

    I don't want to derail this thread anymore, though, so I leave it at that.

15. Frank Clingenpeel Says:
    April 6th, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    A simple statement, Johnny Twisto; Maris {whom you listed as not having reached the HOF} is in, primarily for his part of the "M-and-M" tandom {with Mantle, of course} as a YANKEE. Also; that "Yankee Magic" does add to a player's mystique; but that is primarily because {and as a Reds fan, this hurts me to admit} the Highlanders/Yankees have always been a well-managed and well-run organization.