Most strikeouts, post-season game, team loss
Posted by Andy on October 19, 2007
Here are the most strikeouts in a post-season game for the losing team:
Cnt Player Date Series G Tm Opp GmReslt App,Dec IP H R ER BB **SO** HR Pit Str GmSc IR IS BF AB 2B 3B IBB HBP SH SF GDP SB CS Pk BK WP ERA +----+-----------------+-------------+------+-+---+----+-------+---------+----+--+--+--+--+------+--+---+---+----+--+--+--+--+--+--+---+---+--+--+---+--+--+--+--+--+------+ 1 Mike Mussina 1997-10-11 ALCS 3 BAL @CLE L 1-2 GS-7 7 3 1 1 2 15 0 120 79 80 26 24 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.29 2 John Candelaria 1975-10-07 NLCS 3 PIT CIN L 3-5 GS-8 7.2 3 3 3 2 14 2 73 29 27 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 3.52 3 Randy Johnson 1997-10-05 ALDS 4 SEA @BAL L 1-3 CG 8 ,L 8 7 3 3 2 13 2 137 90 67 33 31 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3.38 4 Tom Seaver 1973-10-06 NLCS 1 NYM @CIN L 1-2 CG 9 ,L 8.1 6 2 2 0 13 2 76 32 30 2 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.16 5 Orlando Hernandez 2000-10-24 WS 3 NYY @NYM L 2-4 GS-8 ,L 7.1 9 4 4 3 12 1 134 91 53 34 30 4 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4.91 6 Charles Nagy 1996-10-05 ALDS 4 CLE BAL L 3-4 GS-6 6 6 2 2 2 12 2 109 64 62 27 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 3.00 7 Nolan Ryan 1986-10-14 NLCS 5 HOU @NYM L 1-2 GS-9 9 2 1 1 1 12 1 90 30 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.00 8 Tom Seaver 1973-10-16 WS 3 NYM OAK L 2-3 GS-8 8 7 2 2 1 12 0 71 32 30 3 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 2.25 9 Walter Johnson 1924-10-04 WS 1 WSH NYG L 3-4 CG 12 ,L 12 14 4 3 6 12 2 66 51 43 2 0 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 1 2.25 10 John Smoltz 1999-10-27 WS 4 ATL @NYY L 1-4 GS-7 ,L 7 6 3 3 3 11 0 121 76 61 30 27 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 3.86 11 Randy Johnson 1999-10-05 NLDS 1 ARI NYM L 4-8 GS-9 ,L 8.1 8 7 7 3 11 2 138 85 47 36 32 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 7.56 12 Mike Cuellar 1973-10-09 ALCS 3 BAL @OAK L 1-2 CG 11 ,L 10 4 2 2 3 11 1 84 37 33 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.80 13 Blue Moon Odom 1972-10-18 WS 3 OAK CIN L 0-1 GS-7 ,L 7 3 1 1 2 11 0 76 27 24 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 1.29 14 Bob Turley 1956-10-09 WS 6 NYY @BRO L 0-1 CG 10 ,L 9.2 4 1 1 8 11 0 80 40 31 1 0 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.93 15 Don Newcombe 1949-10-05 WS 1 BRO @NYY L 0-1 CG 9 ,L 8 5 1 1 0 11 1 79 29 29 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.12 16 Chief Bender 1911-10-14 WS 1 PHA @NYG L 1-2 CG 8 ,L 8 5 2 1 4 11 0 73 34 28 2 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 2 0 0 0 1.12 17 Josh Beckett 2003-10-21 WS 3 FLA NYY L 1-6 GS-8 ,L 7.1 3 2 2 3 10 0 108 67 71 29 25 2 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2.45 18 Mike Mussina 2003-10-13 ALCS 4 NYY @BOS L 2-3 GS-7 ,L 6.2 6 3 3 2 10 2 95 63 58 27 25 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 4.05 19 Roger Clemens 2001-11-04 WS 7 NYY @ARI L 2-3 GS-7 6.1 7 1 1 1 10 0 114 75 64 28 27 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.42 20 Mike Mussina 1997-10-15 ALCS 6 BAL CLE L 0-1 GS-8 8 1 0 0 2 10 0 107 73 88 27 25 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 21 John Smoltz 1996-10-24 WS 5 ATL NYY L 0-1 GS-8 ,L 8 4 1 0 3 10 0 135 79 79 31 28 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 22 John Smoltz 1993-10-10 NLCS 4 ATL PHI L 1-2 GS-7 ,L 6.1 8 2 0 5 10 0 125 76 58 33 27 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 23 Jack Sanford 1962-10-10 WS 5 SFG @NYY L 3-5 GS-8 ,L 7.1 6 5 4 1 10 1 57 30 28 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 4.91 24 Denny Galehouse 1944-10-08 WS 5 SLB STL L 0-2 CG 9 ,L 9 6 2 2 1 10 2 76 34 32 2 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 2.00 25 George Earnshaw 1929-10-11 WS 3 PHA CHC L 1-3 CG 9 ,L 9 6 3 1 2 10 0 75 36 34 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.00
This was done using the Pitching Game Finder, selecting the bubbles for post-season and for Team L, then sorting by most strikeouts.
Poor Mike Mussina has made this list three times. Mussina's an interesting guy...with just slightly better luck he might be thought of as one of the top 10 or 20 pitchers ever. He could easily have had a perfect game, for example.
Now here are the leaders for most games with at least 8 strikeouts where the team lost the game (the specific pitcher didn't necessarily get the loss, as with the list above):
Games Link to Individual Games +-----------------+-----+-------------------------+ John Smoltz 5 Ind. Games Randy Johnson 5 Ind. Games Roger Clemens 4 Ind. Games Nolan Ryan 3 Ind. Games Mike Mussina 3 Ind. Games Tom Seaver 2 Ind. Games Rick Helling 2 Ind. Games Bob Gibson 2 Ind. Games David Cone 2 Ind. Games Josh Beckett 2 Ind. Games
Which one of these is not like the other? Rick Helling, anyone?
And how about a personal Game Score over 80 in games in which your team lost?
Games Link to Individual Games +-----------------+-----+-------------------------+ Mike Mussina 2 Ind. Games Bob Turley 1 Ind. Games Sherry Smith 1 Ind. Games Nolan Ryan 1 Ind. Games Mike Cuellar 1 Ind. Games
And finally, lowering the Game Score to 60:
Games Link to Individual Games +-----------------+-----+-------------------------+ John Smoltz 5 Ind. Games Roger Clemens 5 Ind. Games Tom Seaver 4 Ind. Games Christy Mathewson 4 Ind. Games Randy Johnson 4 Ind. Games Tom Glavine 4 Ind. Games Jerry Reuss 3 Ind. Games Eddie Plank 3 Ind. Games Art Nehf 3 Ind. Games Mike Mussina 3 Ind. Games Matt Morris 3 Ind. Games Greg Maddux 3 Ind. Games Al Leiter 3 Ind. Games Charlie Leibrandt 3 Ind. Games George Earnshaw 3 Ind. Games Doug Drabek 3 Ind. Games Mike Cuellar 3 Ind. Games
It's scary to think about John Smoltz having 5 post-season games that he pitched well enough to win but didn't. The man is 15-4 in the post-season as it is, and 2 of his 4 losses are among those 5 games with a Game Score of at least 60. Can you imagine if he were 20-2 in the post-season instead? They might waive the 5-year waiting rule for the Hall of Fame for him. I don't know how much longer he'll pitch (he's coming off a great season at age 40) but I sure hope he spends the rest of his career in Atlanta.
October 19th, 2007 at 9:58 am
Cool lists. I love stuff like this. It helps you put into perspective pitching wins as a stat versus actual performance quality.
I'm still not sold on Mussina. You gotta convince me on how he would ever be considered top 10. Even if he had that perfect game, a few more playoff wins, and, say, one or two 20-win seasons as opposed to several with 19, I'd still rank him behind Schilling, probably Smoltz, maybe even Kevin Brown.
Unless you're just saying that things like arbitrary win totals would put him over in the minds of others?
October 19th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Mussina is one of only 16 active pitchers with a winning percentage as high as .600, and 7 of the others are age 32 or less (meaning there's a good chance they won't maintain a .600 W% through to age 38 and beyond.)
He's got 2 19-win seasons and 3 18-win seasons, and a career WHIP of 1.19 (9th active.)
It's definitely a stretch to put him in the top 20 of all time. My point was that if he had a bit of luck, such that he had his perfect game, 2 20-win seasons, and one or two championship rings (keep in mind he has zero now), the PERCEPTION would put him in the top 20 of all time. Statistically, he wouldn't be significantly different from he actually is now, but the PERCEPTION would be different.
My real point about Mussina is just that he seems to be on the unlucky side of things. Most things that could have gone one way or the other, out of his control, seem to have gone against him.
October 19th, 2007 at 10:41 am
The 15 Oct 1997 game is a true heartbreaker, the sharp dividing point betweeen the good Orioles of the mid-90s and the terrible Orioles we have been living with ever since. I'm sort of glad I forgot to observe the 10th anniversary. I truly believe the O's would have won game 7, and gone on to win the World Series, if they could have scored ONE FREAKING RUN for their best pitcher that night.
October 19th, 2007 at 11:12 am
You're totally right about his bad fortune. The PI doesn't lie. And while I remember his '97 post-season fondly - it's one of the greatest ever - to a lot of people, he simply has no rings, and that's everything. He's not a "winner". Also unfortunately for him, his peak came during the peak of the league's offensive explosion, so his raw numbers don't look all that great compared to some older pitchers.
October 19th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
Mussina probably isn't one of the 20 greatest pitchers ever, regardless of perception. But Mussina has 250 wins, an ERA+ of 122, and a winning % of .635. Only 18 players in history have 200 wins, an ERA+ of 120, and a winning % of .600 or better, and 13 are in the Hall, the other 5 are active (Mussina, Clemens, Maddux, Randy Johnson, and Pedro Martinez).
So a more interesting question is: is Mussina a Hall of Famer? He does rank 28th all-time on Bill James's Gray Ink Test.
October 19th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
In my eyes, he has to get in, mainly because if you compare him to past inductees, he's far better than a dozen or so.
I suppose he wouldn't get in my personal HOF. Not that I have any say in anything, but I'd rate him somewhere in the top 30-35 or so of all-time. Right ahead of Dave Stieb.
October 19th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
A minor side note: despite the note afterwards, the first table doesn't necessarily have the pitcher of mention taking the loss.
As far as Mussina... One way that Moose has been lucky is that he's played on very good teams for most of his career. I'd attribute his win percentage mostly to that (not entirely, certainly, but his teams have a collective win% of .565).
Does that mean he isn't worthy of the Hall. I'm not sure. He's been very good (and very durable) for a very long time. But I guess I'm at least not convinced that he belongs in the Hall.
October 20th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
From the list of "most strikeouts in a post-season game for the losing team"...Five of those were series-ending losses.
In the 1996 ALDS, Nagy completed 6 innings, and the game (and series) was lost in the 12th.
In the 1997 ALCS, Mussina completed 8 innings, and the game (and series) was lost in the 10th.
In the 1997 ALDS, Johnson pitched an 8-inning complete game loss (losing the series).
In the 1999 WS, Smoltz pitched 7 innings and got the loss, and the series was lost.
In 2001 World Series, Clemens pitched 6.1 innings, and the game (and series) was lost in the 9th inning.
October 20th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
In Seaver's game, he struck out 13 and walked none! He gave up 2 runs, on dingers by Rose and Bench; Bench's was in the bottom of the 9th. Two days later Pete Rose beat up Bud Harrelson.