OK, as promised, here are the results that led to the generation of the trivia question a couple of days ago. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you should probably read that post first, then click through.

First, I discovered a mistake in my earlier explanation. It turns out that if a player started his career before 1975, those years DID reduce the number of years that could be considered within the 1975 to 1995 window. Thus, in the first example for catcher below, note that Gary Carter first played in 1974, and thus it allowed him to accumulate only 9 years (1975 to 1983) for this list, even though he played a full season at catcher in 1984.

OK, let's start off with catcher. All of the lists in this post are most hits, first 10 years of career falling in the years 1975 to 1995 (again, read the previous post for more details on that.)

  Cnt Player              **H**  From  To   Ages   G    PA    AB    R   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions Teams
+----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+
    1 Gary Carter         1179   1975 1983 21-29 1239  4996  4395  603 224  21 187  682  484  62  595  32  29  56  89   30  30  .268  .341  .456  .797 *29/375   MON
    2 Tony Pena           1146   1980 1989 23-32 1207  4526  4185  438 193  22  82  472  278  67  519  14  29  20 139   59  47  .274  .320  .389  .709 *2/39     PIT-STL
    3 Lance Parrish       1123   1977 1986 21-30 1146  4674  4273  577 201  23 212  700  334  37  847  19  13  35 116   22  30  .263  .317  .469  .786 *2/D397   DET
    4 B.J. Surhoff        1064   1987 1995 22-30 1102  4304  3884  472 194  24  57  524  294  35  323  15  52  59  92  102  64  .274  .323  .380  .703 *25/37D9864 MIL
    5 Terry Kennedy       1044   1978 1987 22-31 1105  4218  3885  398 190  11 100  539  273  68  677  14  14  32  95    4  10  .269  .317  .401  .718 *2/73     STL-SDP-BAL

These 5 guys all batted between .263 and .274--that's the way it used to be for catchers. As mentioned above, Carter still leads despite having only 9 years that qualify. But really, every guy on this list is penalized somehow. Pena is penalized (that makes me want to pronounce "penalized" as "Pena-lized") for getting only 231 at-bats over 1980-1981. Parrish had only 334 at-bats over his first two years. Surhoff (who I actually forgot came up as a catcher, before he changed to being a third baseman, before he changed to being a left-fielder) came up a bit too late and therefore squeezes in only 9 seasons prior to the 1995 cutoff. And Terry Kennedy had only 386 at-bats over his first three seasons.

Now first basemen:

  Cnt Player              **H**  From  To   Ages   G    PA    AB    R   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions Teams
+----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+
    1 Eddie Murray        1679   1977 1986 21-30 1499  6415  5624  884 296  20 275 1015  709 117  769  15   2  65 145   55  20  .299  .375  .505  .880 *3D/75    BAL
    2 Don Mattingly       1570   1982 1991 21-30 1269  5496  5003  719 323  15 178  827  388 106  300  17  13  75 135   11   7  .314  .360  .491  .851 *3/D97584 NYY
    3 Will Clark          1543   1986 1995 22-31 1393  5884  5112  845 300  42 205  881  645 129  853  39  13  75  59   57  43  .302  .379  .497  .876 *3/D      SFG-TEX
    4 Wally Joyner        1481   1986 1995 24-33 1364  5786  5105  725 290  19 158  789  560  79  556  29  25  67 124   50  27  .290  .359  .447  .806 *3/D      CAL-KCR
    5 Rafael Palmeiro     1455   1986 1995 21-30 1300  5457  4857  758 296  27 194  706  494  62  541  40  15  51 119   60  24  .300  .365  .491  .856 *37/D98   CHC-TEX-BAL

I was, and still am, a huge Mattingly fan and would've loved to see him come out on top of this list, but it's impossible to deny that Murray was by far the most productive first baseman of this period (and not just in hits.) Notice right away how much higher these guys' hit totals are than for the catchers. That just reiterates the degree to which catching was still primarily a defense position back then. For more thoughts on this, please read toward the end of this earlier post. In Mattingly's defense, he had fewer than 300 at-bats in his first two seasons, while Murray's first season was full. It's interesting that the last 3 guys on the list all first came up in 1986 although Palmeiro didn't become a full-time player until 1988. It's easy to forget that by the time he was 26 in 1991, Palmeiro had already logged seasons batting .322, .319, and .307, back when those numbers were much more impressive. It looked like he might become another player in the Boggs/Gwynn mold, but then his batting averages regressed closer to league averages and his power numbers really picked up. Regardless of the controversy over Palmeiro's alleged involvement with performance enhancers (let me be clear that I am phrasing it that way not to reflect my own belief about his guilt or innocence, but just because this is not the forum for debate on that issue,) we must remember that he was an awesome hitter earlier in his career. I've never heard anybody say that steroids can help a player get more singles.

Second base:

  Cnt Player              **H**  From  To   Ages   G    PA    AB    R   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions Teams
+----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+
    1 Ryne Sandberg       1583   1981 1990 21-30 1389  6060  5508  872 256  57 179  649  464  43  786  19  27  42  85  275  76  .287  .342  .452  .794 *45/6     PHI-CHC
    2 Steve Sax           1583   1981 1990 21-30 1404  6142  5578  732 209  40  39  438  464  41  496  19  56  25 113  376 152  .284  .339  .357  .696 *4/57     LAD-NYY
    3 Johnny Ray          1502   1981 1990 24-33 1353  5657  5188  604 294  36  53  594  353  39  329  12  48  56 126   80  49  .290  .333  .391  .724 *4/7D     PIT-TOT-CAL
    4 Juan Samuel         1338   1983 1992 22-31 1310  5613  5146  718 243  85 128  574  346  34 1208  60  24  37  68  349 118  .260  .312  .415  .727 *48/95    PHI-TOT-LAD
    5 Roberto Alomar      1329   1988 1995 20-27 1151  5064  4460  697 230  48  77  499  470  28  522  22  77  35  97  296  76  .298  .365  .423  .788 *4/6D     SDP-TOR

As reader gswitter pointed out, we've got a tie at the top between Sax and Sandberg. I'm giving the edge to Sandberg, though, because he got 6 at-bats with the Phillies in 1981 to count as his first year. Sax got 119 at-bats in his first year (also 1981) so he got a small edge on Ryno there. That's not to say we should ignore Sax--he had a splendid career, although it did end a bit early. Johnny Ray also had a fairly short but very consistent career and it's nice to see him make this list. Samuel is right where he belongs. And for Alomar to even make the list despite having just 8 seasons inside the 1995 cutoff is very impressive. He'll come up for the HOF in 2009 I think--that will be an interesting vote.

Third base:

   Cnt Player              **H**  From  To   Ages   G    PA    AB    R   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions Teams
+----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+
    1 Wade Boggs          1965   1982 1991 24-33 1482  6725  5699 1005 400  43  78  637  930 131  439  18  23  55 153   15  24  .345  .435  .471  .906 *5/3D7    BOS
    2 Bobby Bonilla       1472   1986 1995 23-32 1434  5918  5191  809 306  49 217  849  644 103  846  15   5  63 111   36  44  .284  .360  .487  .847 *597/38   TOT-PIT-NYM-TOT
    3 Carney Lansford     1467   1978 1987 21-30 1290  5541  5032  723 239  34 132  639  379  35  568  35  38  57 104  135  65  .292  .342  .431  .773 *5/3D64   CAL-BOS-OAK
    4 Terry Pendleton     1446   1984 1993 23-32 1401  5759  5292  677 261  34 104  717  368  59  664  10  33  56 142  119  53  .273  .319  .394  .713 *5/9      STL-ATL
    5 George Brett        1398   1975 1982 22-29 1089  4811  4346  711 280  93 123  656  396  76  276   9  18  42  72  123  63  .322  .376  .514  .890 *5/736D   KCR

It's no contest, with Boggs way out in front. Everybody else on this is right where they belong. Brett is penalized two seasons for starting his career in 1973. Even if we gave him 400 more hits for those two seasons, he'd still be pretty short of Boggs (although well ahead of every other 3B.)

Shortstop, one of the bigger surprises:

  Cnt Player              **H**  From  To   Ages   G    PA    AB    R   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions Teams
+----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+
    1 Julio Franco        1605   1982 1991 23-32 1367  5873  5309  788 242  40  84  671  484  34  620  23   8  49 191  219  82  .302  .360  .410  .770 *64/D5    PHI-CLE-TEX
    2 Cal Ripken          1552   1981 1990 20-29 1476  6375  5655  871 294  28 225  828  635  40  701  21   3  61 174   22  23  .274  .347  .456  .803 *6/5      BAL
    3 Tony Fernandez      1465   1983 1992 21-30 1328  5636  5132  675 251  70  48  479  396  17  480  30  42  36  91  181  91  .285  .338  .390  .728 *6/5      TOR-SDP
    4 Robin Yount         1455   1975 1983 19-27 1282  5555  5081  732 282  60 110  607  345  21  538  12  67  50  94  121  49  .286  .330  .430  .760 *6/D      MIL
    5 Garry Templeton     1452   1976 1985 20-29 1276  5336  5052  661 219  84  42  475  221  80  687   7  28  28  92  205 110  .287  .317  .389  .706 *6        STL-SDP

To me, it's a shocker that Ripken did not lead. Like Sandberg, Franco lost his first season with almost no at-bats for the Phillies. But then he was extremely consistent after that, averaging 177 hits in the next 9 seasons. Ripken also had a wasted first year, getting just 38 at-bats in 1981. The real reason why Franco won is because his big year of hitting .341 with 201 hits came in 1991, the last year he qualified for this list. Ripken's big year of .323 with 210 hits came in 1991 too, but one year beyond his range for this list.

It's nice to see Tony Fernandez on here, as I have always felt he was a little underrated. But he, Yount, and Templeton are so close you can basically flip a coin among them (provided that you can find a three-sided coin.)

Now outfield:

  Cnt Player              **H**  From  To   Ages   G    PA    AB    R   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions Teams
+----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+
    1 Kirby Puckett       1996   1984 1993 24-33 1538  6747  6267  909 343  54 164  874  366  60  829  46  22  46 162  125  71  .318  .358  .469  .827 *8/9D7456 MIN
    2 Tony Gwynn          1699   1982 1991 22-31 1335  5725  5181  765 248  72  53  550  460 116  275  12  41  31 126  246 100  .328  .382  .434  .816 *98/7     SDP
    3 Jim Rice            1602   1975 1983 22-30 1310  5745  5239  817 245  61 275  941  403  54  951  45   5  53 179   49  31  .306  .357  .533  .890 *7D/98    BOS
    4 Willie McGee        1548   1982 1991 23-32 1324  5536  5195  717 237  81  56  603  286  34  790  11  15  29 100  294  96  .298  .334  .407  .741 *8/976D   STL-TOT-SFG
    5 Ruben Sierra        1547   1986 1995 20-29 1454  6197  5679  809 306  50 220  952  419  75  834   7   1  91 131  126  47  .272  .318  .460  .778 *9D/78    TEX-TOT-OAK
    6 Harold Baines       1547   1980 1989 21-30 1428  5888  5363  679 276  44 189  835  449  89  809  10   8  58 145   29  21  .288  .341  .462  .803 *9D/8     CHW-TOT
    7 Rickey Henderson    1455   1979 1988 20-29 1322  5930  4983 1058 235  44 126  504  870  26  668  30  18  29  76  794 187  .292  .398  .433  .831 *78/D9    OAK-NYY
    8 George Bell         1453   1981 1991 21-31 1330  5480  5086  704 264  32 227  826  287  43  625  39   0  68 122   61  33  .286  .325  .484  .809 *79/D54   TOR-CHC
    9 Barry Bonds         1436   1986 1995 21-30 1425  6038  5020  999 306  48 292  864  931 196  795  33   3  51  71  340 103  .286  .398  .541  .939 *78/9     PIT-SFG
   10 Andre Dawson        1434   1976 1985 21-30 1313  5592  5132  763 263  65 205  760  317  60  817  56  22  65  84  235  73  .279  .324  .476  .800 *89/7     MON
   11 Brett Butler        1424   1981 1990 24-33 1360  5785  5001  850 189  83  39  362  654  14  527  25  72  33  40  358 160  .285  .368  .379  .747 *87/9     ATL-CLE-SFG
   12 Joe Carter          1370   1983 1992 23-32 1344  5631  5201  727 264  34 242  873  302  59  851  60  10  58  72  181  53  .263  .308  .467  .775 7893/D45  CHC-CLE-SDP-TOR
   13 Lloyd Moseby        1319   1980 1989 20-29 1392  5799  5124  768 242  60 149  651  547  41 1015  50  38  40  88  255  86  .257  .333  .415  .748 *89/7D    TOR
   14 Tim Raines          1319   1979 1988 19-28 1130  5003  4331  793 233  70  78  430  612  92  472  19  16  25  64  544  81  .305  .391  .445  .836 *78/49    MON
   15 Andy Van Slyke      1308   1983 1992 22-31 1390  5381  4737  720 251  82 144  688  558  41  895  21  12  53  65  220  57  .276  .351  .455  .806 *89/735   STL-PIT

This list is quite a hodge-podge. First we note that Puckett is way, way in the lead for outfielders, and in fact narrowly beats out Boggs for first place among all hitters in this search. Rice gets only 9 years because he started in 1974, although he had very few at-bats that year anyway so it wouldn't have helped him. Were you as surprised as I was to see Ruben Sierra so high up there? Lloyd Moseby and Van Slyke also surprised me a bit, but I'm glad I made this list so we can better appreciate where they really fit in this scenario.

Now for the one screwy category, DH:

  Cnt Player              **H**  From  To   Ages   G    PA    AB    R   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions Teams
+----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+
    1 Hal McRae            683   1975 1978 29-32  593  2568  2271  327 165  27  50  308  221  25  195  31  11  34  58   68  42  .301  .366  .463  .829 *D7/95    KCR
    2 Mitchell Page        560   1977 1984 25-32  673  2398  2104  297  84  21  72  259  245  21  449  18  17  14  38  104  55  .266  .346  .429  .775 *D7/9     OAK-PIT
    3 Glenn Adams          452   1975 1982 27-34  661  1760  1617  152  79   5  34  225  111   8  183   4   9  19  47    6  10  .280  .324  .398  .722 *D/79     SFG-MIN-TOR
    4 Ken Phelps           425   1980 1989 25-34  705  2144  1734  298  62   7 122  307  368  25  428  21   1  20  21    9   7  .245  .380  .500  .880 *D3/9     KCR-MON-SEA-TOT
    5 Kevin Maas           287   1990 1995 25-30  406  1448  1248  171  43   1  65  169  182  21  310   8   0  10  13   10   5  .230  .329  .422  .751 *D3       NYY-MIN

So...notice a few things. The hit totals are tiny here. A lot of players (such as Don Baylor) got penalized because they didn't qualify as DHs the way the rules were set up. I don't think this list merits much analysis, although I will say I am shocked that Ken Phelps had only 443 career hits (if you add in 1990, not in the list above.) Averaging 44 hits for 10 years is hard to do, and happens only when you are productive enough to stick around for so long, but not ever given full seasons to play. With a career OPS of .854, Phelps definitely deserved a lot more playing time.

And finally we come to pitchers:

  Cnt Player              **H**  From  To   Ages   G    PA    AB    R   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  Positions Teams
+----+-----------------+--------+----+----+-----+----+-----+-----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+---------+-----------+
    1 Dwight Gooden        142   1984 1993 19-28  302   821   718   58  15   5   7   63   13   0  130   3  81   6  13    1   1  .198  .214  .262  .476 *1        NYM
    2 Fernando Valenzue    142   1980 1989 19-28  313   820   738   40  17   1   7   61    7   0  107   0  70   5  12    0   2  .192  .199  .247  .446 *1/379    LAD
    3 Greg Maddux          130   1986 1995 20-29  310   798   716   55  15   0   2   35   11   0  200   1  70   0   5    3   1  .182  .195  .211  .406 *1        CHC-ATL
    4 Bob Forsch           126   1975 1983 25-33  297   712   614   52  30   6   7   49   21   0  171   1  72   4  11    1   1  .205  .231  .308  .539 *1        STL
    5 Mike Krukow          114   1976 1985 24-33  278   597   529   35  18   0   4   37    9   0  128   4  49   6   6    2   2  .216  .232  .272  .504 *1        CHC-PHI-SFG

As was already mentioned, Steve Carlton didn't qualify because he started in 1965 and therefore the first 10 years of his career fell completely outside of this search area. Gooden and Valenzuela started at the right time and tie, both batting in the .190s for this period. Actually if you look at their numbers above, they are remarkably similar, especially considering that it's difficult to think of two pitchers much more physically different than those two.

Overall, this study has its pros and its cons. I look at it as interesting, somewhat useful, but just as flawed as any other leaderboard. It's definitely a little bit better than, for example, the leaders for a given decade.

This entry was posted on Thursday, August 23rd, 2007 at 9:05 am and is filed under Season Finders. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.