“I don’t believe … what I just saw!” (Final wild card wrap, 9/28/11)
Posted by John Autin on September 28, 2011
Despite a 6-run 8th, Tampa Bay was still down a run in the 9th, with two out and none on, and two strikes on pinch-hitter Dan Johnson, who had 1 HR this year, and 1 pinch-HR in his career.
Now, he has two.
Moments after the prophetic Michael Kay noted that "Corey Wade has never had a save in the major leagues," Johnson drilled a change-up just inside the RF fair pole.
Some fans may remember Johnson's first HR as a pinch-hitter: It was September 9, 2008, Rays in Fenway having lost 6 of 7 to shed 5 games off their lead, 9th inning, down a run and about to cede the top spot for the first time since the All-Star break -- when Johnson, in his first time up in a Tampa uniform, connected off Jonathan Papelbon for a game-tying HR. The Rays scored again in the inning, secured the win, and were never headed.
I think Joe Maddon remembered that one, too.
Oh, and Johnson's other HR this year? A 9th-inning go-ahead 3-run shot that capped a 5-run rally and led to Tampa's first win of the year after an 0-6 start. In 30 games this year, Johnson was 9 for 83 with just those 3 RBI, until tonight.
Unreal.
And that was just one of three huge Tampa HRs, and one of three amazing late-game turnarounds, on the night that the wild cards were finally, maybe fittingly, settled in favor of the comeback teams that wouldn't die.
-- In Baltimore, Robert Andino's line single to LF off Jonathan Papelbon capped a 9th-inning rally -- from 2 out and none on -- that led to a 4-3 defeat of the Red Sox. Boston had held a 3-2 lead since the 5th, but missed out on insurance runs in the 8th and 9th -- first, when Marco Scutaro was thrown out trying to score from 1st on Carl Crawford's 1-out double, then when last night's hero, Ryan Lavarnway, bounced glacially into a DP with the bases loaded. (If you watch the play on Scutaro, note how Matt Wieters waits patiently in position as the on-target throw takes a 2nd bounce and lands right in his glove a microsecond before Scutaro's sliding spikes make contact. Beautiful. If Wieters reaches out to glove the ball, the run most likely scores.)
-- Minutes after that final went up in Tropicana Field, with the throng still buzzing and the game still 7-all in the 12th, Evan Longoria pulled a low liner into the LF corner for his 2nd HR of the game, gone so quickly and so modestly that a second passed before the crowd really erupted. Longo had climaxed Tampa's rally in the 8th with a more majestic blow, worth 3 runs. He also made a key defensive play in the top of the 12th: the Yanks had men at the corners with no outs when Longoria gloved a grounder from Jorge Posada and pounced on the indecisive Greg Golson, belatedly trying to retreat to 3rd. New York did not score, and when Scott Proctor went into his 3rd inning of work, it felt like just a matter of time.
-- In an Atlanta rerun, the Braves scored 3 early but never again, the defense and the bullpen faltered late, and Hunter Pence hiccuped a 2-out RBI single through the infield in the 13th, as Philly ended Atlanta's season, 4-3.
-- Meanwhile, in Houston, no late thrills, but early thunder -- the Cards scored 5 in the 1st, their biggest opening salvo of the year, and Chris Carpenter fashioned his 2nd September shutout, a 2-hitter with 11 Ks. His 93 Game Score was 1 shy of his career best. Alas for we round-number lovers, Albert Pujols went 1 for 6 and finished the season with a .299 BA and 99 RBI, ending a 10-year run of ... well, you know.
There was so much more in these games, and others, but I'm spent. It's been a long, fun month of late nights, but now that the playoffs are set -- my Tigers come to NY, the Rays head to Texas; Philly hosts the Cards, and Milwaukee welcomes the D-backs -- I'm going to put this one (and myself) to bed a bit early.
I'll see you all in the next round of playoffs!
September 29th, 2011 at 9:21 am
If Crawford had stayed in Tampa Bay and the Sox kept Martinez for a mere 50 mil. Maybe Crawford will come around? Kind of reminded me of election night 2000...
September 29th, 2011 at 9:22 am
Dukeofflatbush: You have a right to your opinion, but I find your analogy, not all that analogous. The Orioles did nothing remotely wrong. The right time and place to celebrate was then and there.
September 29th, 2011 at 9:24 am
I know it doesn't mean that Girardi HAD to do it, but he had previously said Rivera, Robertson and Soriano were not going to pitch in last night's game. Logan, Wade, and Ayala pitched some important innings for the Yanks this year.
The team the Yanks used was similar to the one that played the final game against the Red Sox when Ellsbury hit the HR in extras of Proctor.
September 29th, 2011 at 9:37 am
@ doug
also in appreciation of timmy p
Michael Young who the Rangers did not want at the start of the season became just the 16th player to reach 200 hits in 6 separate seasons.
Also, he has put himself in a very unique position for next year; and that is – to capture 2,000 hits in a ten year span. I can only think of 4 maybe 5 players to accomplish the feat. He needs only 185 hits next year to make the mark.
And he has once again accomplished the very rare feat of driving in 100 while having less than 15 HR, joining Victor Martinez in that category this year. Besides Victor and Mike, only 2 players have done this. Renteria, and of course; Young in 2006. Michael Young of course in 2006 (Bobby Abreu drove in over 100 twice in the last ten years while having exactly 15 HRs, not under 15. The 100 RBI with < 15HR trick has been done 150 times in the live ball era, but just 26 times since 1947 (integration). 14 times from ’47 to ’84, then inexplicably 4 times in 85? Go figure.
Cheers to Michael Young, Ranger’s MVP.
September 29th, 2011 at 9:41 am
Last night was a great night for the true baseball fan without question. With regards to the Yankees, if they did "lie down" so to speak, why would you let the hottest team going in the Rays make the playoffs. Right now, with Price, Shields and Hellickson, they can make some noise. I could also see Matt Moore making the same impact that Price did in 2008 with the Rays. The Yankees will have a tough road to make it to the World Series.
September 29th, 2011 at 9:44 am
Also, with regards to Jose Reyes, I think it has become a tad overblown and I am not a Mets fan. There has been other examples of batting title leaders sitting down like Todd Helton vs Albert Pujols and Wade Boggs vs Don Mattingly.
September 29th, 2011 at 9:56 am
JR,
Deron Johnson in 1970 comes to mind as well. Jose at least left Braun room to win it.
One thing I’ll never understand though, is Manny a point down to Bill Mueller, sat out his last game, just gave away a batting title. I guess trying to understand Manny is the problem there.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:03 am
All you guys disagreeing with me about the O’s celebration are taking it the wrong way.
But what I think what a lot of us over looked, is that circus in Milwaukee, Niger Morgan (or Tony Plush as he prefers). If you want to talk about bad blood, he called Pujols a woman and threw chewing gum or tobacco at Carpenter, then taunted the Red Birds in post game rants and twitter feeds for a week saying how no matter what, he was going to the show while the Cards watched from home. He just ran and ran his mouth. I know they are gonna miss eachother in the first round, but it should make an interesting game if they both make it through and Carpenter has 1st base open with Niger up and the pitcher on deck.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:06 am
The Rays have some momentum, but they still don't hit....and, I see them being an easier match-up for the Yanks than the Red Sox. Besides, the Rays did it against the Yanks B-team in many ways. The Yanks only had about 3/4 of their team on hand for any one of the last few games. The Red Sox could lose 20 in a row and they would wake up for a series with the Yanks. I can easily see the Yanks losing in the first round though. I still see the Phils as the big favorites.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:07 am
The comments about the O's celebration is baffling. If they had just gone through the motions this final series and let Boston win easily, imagine the criticism that would've been leveled at them.
John Autin, thanks for the great write-ups all season long, and kudos to you for repeatedly pointing out in recent weeks the possibility of Tampa Bay sneaking up on the Sox (and usually answering your own question with a tongue-in-cheek (?) "naaaah").
September 29th, 2011 at 10:11 am
I don't see how any of us are taking it the wrong way Dukeofflatbush. Explain yourself. You have insisted (or that's how it's being perceived to some degree) that the Orioles over-celebrated or showed a lack of respect for the game or lack of respect for Wakefield, Varitek etc. The Orioles celebrated the same after a walk-off as most teams have been all season. It was well within the norm for an emotional response for team that was trying to end the season on a good note. They were part of a night filled with big drama.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:16 am
Bruce,
You aren’t getting what I’m saying.
I’m super-happy the O’s played the way they did. I think any team that lays down when so much on the line is doing the game a disservice. But I don’t know how playing hard and celebrating have to do with one an other.
All I’m saying is, I truly believe some of there joy was derived from sending a team home, which to me isn’t cool. They acted as if they won the WS not game 69. I’m not a Redsox fan, but I really like Varitek and Wakefield. Wakefield especially (he was a mediocre infielder, who didn’t pitch until a few years in the minors, and didn’t throw the knuckle ball till he was mid 20’s) - he then went on to win 200 games. He took any role the Sox gave him and he and Varitek will one day have their #s retired at Fenway. That was their last game ever played and they saw a bunch of also-rans not so much celebrating their own victory as they were celebrating the Sox’s defeat.
Schadenfreude.
I think it was a great game and the right way to play and fair to the Rays to do so… just a bit much for a loosing season.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:17 am
All the Red Sox fans whining about Yankees not using Rivera, ridiculous. Win ONE MORE game in the previous 161 and you're not in this position. To then COMPLAIN about what the Yankees did or didn't do is just unbelievable...do you even realize how incredibly STUPID you sound?
September 29th, 2011 at 10:18 am
And the O's celebrating is AWESOME. They CARED about how they played down the stretch and took great pride in knocking the Red Sox, a division rival no less, out of the playoffs. BEE-U-TEE-FUL!
September 29th, 2011 at 10:19 am
Matt,
No one would respect a player if he celebrated breaking up a perfect game in the 9th, if he jumped up and down and gloated in front of a pitcher.
Yes he eeked out some respect for his team, but in the end the bigger picture is not about him.
Like I said earlier, we used to shake hands after a little league game when I was 12.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:19 am
@103, you forget about Tom Herr, think he drove in 110 with only 8 homers in 1985 I believe.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:26 am
Niger Morgan eating his words anyone?
September 29th, 2011 at 10:30 am
As a Red Sox fan, last night was certainly very disappointing but it didn't hurt nearly as much as the 2003 ALCS - the way the pitching has imploded over the last month means that even if they had hung on to the wild card spot, they would have only served as cannon fodder for their ALDS opponents anyway.
A 7.08 ERA from the starters in September??? Words fail me.
I'm surprised the bullpen ERA is only 4.45, considering how overworked they have been (averaging well over 4 innings per game).
Lackey should have been dumped from the rotation long ago, he's had the pitching equivalent of Adam Dunn's season. Eating the remaining $45.75 million on his contract seems like a small price to pay in order to not have 3 more seasons of this! Also, as much as I like Tim Wakefield, it's obvious that old father time has finally caught up to him, but at least he made it to 200 wins.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:37 am
Boston loses ... AWESOME ! Good Ol PapleBUM ... I LOVE THAT GUY ! What a collapse , gotta love it .... See you next year Boston , lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lmao
September 29th, 2011 at 10:40 am
@106: Alex Johnson in 1970.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:50 am
Dear Boston Red Sox-
We caught the end of the game last night. We feel for you guys. It just hurt watching guys get thrown out on the bases or get stranded, watching your bitterest rivals blow leads to your pursuers on back-to-back nights to close the year. The worst thing is, you know in your hearts that you can't even have the fun of being mad about that because of how bad things went for you in September. It's nothing all winter long but "It's your own fault, it should never make a difference, you guys suck, blahdiblah."
The consolation is that we all have a little retreat out in the woods. All the collapsing teams get to get away from it all, and no media allowed. (We think Branch Rickey had it built back in '49 - the man was truly a visionary.) The locals don't get on your case, either, since it's in Canada and they've been slobbering about the start of the hockey season since Labor Day. They probably won't even recognize that you're pro athletes.
First round's on us when you get here. And tell Jacoby that David says hello, and he's sorry about the whole "awesome September in vain" thing.
Sincerely,
the 2007 New York Mets
September 29th, 2011 at 10:51 am
What got me about the Bosox-Os game was the loud cheering every time the Sox recorded an out. I know with the rain delay that much of the crowd left at midnight was Sox fans... but if I were an Oriole, that cheering would stick in my craw, big time. (I really liked the frequent chants of Let's go Os that broke out repeatedly, obviously in response to the Sox fans' audibility.)
I think that was part of the Os final celebration. They were at home and knew they were playing in front of a crowd that was only half (at best) rooting for them (Andrino, the walk-off hero, to me looked more 'take that' angry than happy about his hit... and I can't say I blame him. You want to cheer for Boston in Camden Yards? That that!)
The Os are a credit to MLB and their profession. They clearly played their hearts out all month. Just look at their Sept. record versus Bos, TB, NY, LAA and Det: - 14-10. What are the odds of a 69 win team playing near .600 ball against contenders?
This win was no fluke or aberration. The Os had every right to a fulsome celebration.
Oh, and yes, I do love baseball. I spent two hours bouncing between Atlanta, Baltimore and Tampa on mlb.com TV, loving every minute. What a show! What a way to cap a season of long stories...
September 29th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Dukeofflatbush: Again, I find your analogies off-base and not analogous. It's very different celebrating a win than a player celebrating breaking up a perfect game. That would be uncool, but celebrating a win is entirely different!! Period. They did nothing different than other teams celebrating walk-offs....and, I see nothing wrong about taking extra pleasure in knocking out a divisional rival. Nothing at all!! I'm a Yankee fan, and to me, in many ways, it's the greatest (best) loss in Yankee history.....and, I have no problem with that. It's what makes a rivalry a rivalry. Now, I don't wish injuries or personal ill-will, but I did enjoy seeing the Red Sox go down the way they did. Yes, the world could be kindler, but your analogies don't seem to be based in much 2011 reality. You are right to your opinion, but just about everyone disagrees with your angle on this....and, i',m not some blowhard Yankee fan. I would still vote Ellsbury ahead of Granderson for MVP...and, I was rooting for Wakefield to get his 200 too...and Varitek, and much as I dislike him, I respect the way he played the game --tough nose, gritty player...a type of player that injects energy into a rivalry.
September 29th, 2011 at 11:06 am
@114 et. al. When I was a child, I played in a league that didn't keep score, so nobody's feelings got hurt.
I never much cared for Buck, but he did predict several weeks ago that the Rays would win the wild card. It was really just a dig at the Yankees then, but still . . . .
September 29th, 2011 at 11:06 am
@103: I'm not paying to subscribe to the Play Index, but it spits out 194 seasons with less than 15 HR and 100 or more RBI. I'm going to assume most of those happened in the early 1900s, especially since I only get 19 seasons after narrowing the results to the expansion era (weeding out players like Sam Crawford and Lou Boudreau), but playing around with the sorting, I saw Keith Moreland's 1985 season (14-106), Hubie Brooks' 1985 season (13-100), Ted Simmons 1983 (13-108), Keith Hernandez 1979 (11-105) and Paul Molitor 1996 (9-113). And Tom Herr did post 8-110 in 1985.
For whoever said this might be a good thing for the Red Sox and Braves, I'm a Mets fan, and 2007 and 2008 were not good things for the Mets. Like another post above re: the 1978-1979 Red Sox, it took me about a month into the 2008 season to finally muster the courage to watch the Mets again. And then the team sucker punched me a second time, almost the same way, but in even more poignant fashion since the team found a way to fall short of the playoffs by losing the last game at Shea. Of course, it's the Mets, and I should not have expected anything other than a loss.
I somewhat sincerely hope that the Red Sox (I only wish the worst for the Braves, and I mean the team's performance, not the worst for the players) don't fall apart like the Mets have these past few seasons (if the Braves don't win another game, then that's fine with me). The Boston front office shouldn't let that happen--I don't see Omar Minaya running the show--but that Carl Crawford contract isn't the most encouraging sign.
September 29th, 2011 at 11:10 am
I agree with you Duke. The Orioles did not show much class with that celebration.
September 29th, 2011 at 11:20 am
Since there are at least 2-3 people (as opposed to 10+ on the other side of the fence) that don't seem to like how the O's celebrated last night...I'd like to know how they celebrated any differently than other walk off wins?...or is it, that there's a small group of people that just don't like the modern day celebrating of the walk-off win? I agree that on the field celebrating of the walk-off has taken on a made for TV/ESPN hyped feeling more than it did 20 years ago, but the O's celebrating no differently (other than perhaps a little extra emotional juice given last day of season) than the other 50+ walk-offs celebrated this year?
September 29th, 2011 at 11:29 am
Although last night's games were exciting, calling this the most exciting night in baseball history, the most exciting since 1949, etc., seems a bit over the top. Basically, because of baseball affirmative action, the 4th and 5th-best teams in the league were duking it out for a postseason berth. This in no way is comparable to the Giants in '51, who won the pennant, or the baseball races in '49, which were for the right to play in the World Series.
Re: The Orioles
They have to have something to celebrate about. Is it ridiculous for a team that lost 93 games and hasn't had a winning season in more than a decade to be jumping around like that? Perhaps, but it is wholly understandable. They weren't rubbing it in, they were celebrating. Should Tampa Bay have muted its celebration because the D-Rays came back against the Yankee C Team?
September 29th, 2011 at 11:30 am
@112, Duke: "some of [Baltimore's] joy was derived from sending a team home"
I have two points on this particular angle, and then some broader comments:
1. Baltimore's win, at that moment, did not actually end Boston's season. Longoria's HR came 3 minutes later.
2. At this level of competition, I would be surprised if any player did not feel joy from sending an opponent home.
Every year, we hear players on also-ran teams say of a "spoiler" series that "this is our playoffs." There may be a manufactured aspect of that sentiment -- but inventing motivation is an integral part of the daily grind on those teams. I want to congratulate the Orioles for their fine play against the contenders in these final months. To understand how they could go 9-4 against the 3 wild-card contestants is to understand the competitive fire that burns in so many players at all times.
How could I acknowledge those things;
and the galling presence of thousands of vocal Red Sox fans in Oriole Park;
and the rising tension of the final innings;
and how the O's mounted the winning rally from the bottom of their order after 2 out and none on, against one of the best closers and a team that hadn't lost a game all year that they led after 8 innings;
and that a player of such modest accomplishment as Robert Andino had just slain the dragon for the 3rd time in 9 days --
how in the name of all that is baseball could I acknowledge all those things, and still fault those players for a jubilant emotional reaction at that moment?
I just can't do it. I'm happy for them.
In a recent column, David Schoenfield used a quote by Tony LaRussa from after the 1990 WS:
“Losing sucks,” he said. “I don’t think most people understand how bad it feels.”
I get how Boston and their fans must have felt at the moment of defeat.
But I also get how Baltimore and their fans must have felt losing 90 games a year for the last dozen years or so, being out of the race by June, having to find some way to soldier on. This year, fate would have it that their actions in the last 3 weeks finally meant something. They rose to the challenge, and I completely understand and support their celebration.
September 29th, 2011 at 11:34 am
Red Sox fans, you're kind of killing me in these comments. I know it hurts. But you have no one to blame but the Red Sox themselves.
Look, the Red Sox blew it. All they had to do was go 8-19 rather than 7-20 in the month of September, and they would have won the Wild Card by a game. They couldn't do it. It's on them.
Trying to shift the blame from the Sox to the Yankees for not overusing their best pitcher in a meaningless game after the Sox had blown a huge lead over the course of the past month, or trying to say that they Orioles had no right to celebrate a walk-off win because the feelings of the Red Sox players should have been first and foremost in their minds, is simply absurd.
September 29th, 2011 at 11:57 am
@128, Todd -- We baseball fans do not control the format of the races. No matter how we may feel about the number of playoff spots, the fact remains that last night we had 4 teams in 4 games fighting for 2 spots, and 3 of the games were flat-out humdingers.
As a veteran of 40 years or so following the game passionately, and even though I had no horse in these races, there are only 2 other baseball days that top the excitement I felt last night: Game 7 of the 2006 NLCS, when I stood a hundred feet from Endy Chavez while he made the greatest catch I've ever witnessed live; and Game 6 of the '86 WS.
The modern playoff format makes for more such opportunities, but the excitement came from how the players responded. The excitement was real, and it was indescribable.
September 29th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Think the Rays will vote Manny Ramirez a playoff share?
September 29th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@132, Spindlebrook -- Manny prob'ly thinks he's eligible for the postseason.
September 29th, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Reference #44 - Thank you Andrew for listing the two websites showing the ESPN (the Red Sox leaning station) pre-season predictions and the real Red Sox station's Eric Ortiz's comment on the 2011 Red Sox challenging the 1927 Red Sox. The latter should go beside the VEE-JAY Records talent scout who claimed "there is no future for 3 guitars in a band" in reference to the Beatles in the early '60s.
September 29th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
I meant 1927 Yankees. OOPS
September 29th, 2011 at 12:53 pm
Personally, I don't blame the O's for celebrating...it's been quite a while since they've had much to cheer about, so they're probably getting just a bit desperate.
And, obeying my wife {a Quincy, Mass. girl}; WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR !!!
September 29th, 2011 at 1:06 pm
Well, I sure am thankful for the Red Sox. No one is talking about the Braves collapse and that's fine by me. However, I feel compelled to vent for a moment. Did anyone else notice how badly Fredi Gonzalez got out-managed last night? Why would you not walk Pence in the 13th when Michael Martinez (and his .190-something BA) is on deck? And no one coming out right away to calm down Kimbrel in the 9th? How about a double switch so Christian Martinez could have been used longer? And I could go on and on...
Things have to change a bit with the Braves brass and their philosophy. They're a bit too old school and you need to have more analytics in this day and age. I mean, where are the defensive strategies? Pitch Ryan Howard away when he's against the shift? In the first inning, he punches it down the left field line and I'm like, huh? I feel like Fredi is just guessing out there. Ah, maybe this will work.
Jason Heyward? Why is he still 15 feet from the plate? Young man was entirely lost the whole season...what are you doing with him Larry Parrish? Maybe Heyward's just not that good? Chipper, why is he such a leader when he is first pitch swinging so often? Uggla too. Bourn is really the only guy who ever works the count. It's been so long since there's been any speed out there that no one knows how to hit when a basestealer is aboard. Fredi, why the constant tinkering with the batting order? No wonder everyone is out of rhythm, there is none. Derek Lowe run out there every 5th day throwing BP?
And my biggest peeve: For years Bobby Cox was a player's manager who let his guys work their way into shape at Spring Training...they'd seemingly just hunt all winter long and head down to Disney to get it together. Folks, without greenies and juice these days, that just don't work anymore. Every single player looked worn out, Tim Hudson getting 5 IV bags after his 2nd to last start? How can you not be prepared for your start? Dan Uggla hitting .170 the first 2 months of the season? Wonder what he did in Tennessee during the offseason?
There was an obvious problem with conditioning this year and it starts in the offseason. Historically, the Braves have been a close-knit good-ole-boy type of group that kinda just has fun in the offseason. That doesn't get it done in September/October. Did anyone see Andruw Jones towards the end of his ATL days? Tell me that Brian McCann hasn't gained 20-30 lbs this season. What happened last year? Braves were worn out and injury riddled to the extent that they had to use poor Brooks Conrad at 2nd...how did that turn out?
All I'm saying is that there seems to be a certain lack of preparation, both analytically and physically. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about effort here because everyone out there busted their tails trying to win. Maybe too much so, but even if they got into the post-season they had nothing left in the tank.
Again, I'm not questioning the effort or desire, I'm just wondering about the preparation aspect. I'm sure 162 is a grind, but after watching this team at least 150 times this year, I feel like certain questions need to be answered unlike what happened last night when Fredi ended the press conference (when asked why Pence was pitched to and not Martinez).
Only 139 days until pitchers and catchers report...
September 29th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
JA, will you be doing a regular season wrap up post to point out all the new stats that need to be memorized and what not? I have discovered a nice trivia question if you are:
Counting this season Alfonso Soriano has now accumulated 1013 more strikeouts than walks (1423 to 410). Who are the other 8 players with 1000 more Ks than BBs?
September 29th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Great detail on Dan Johnson and Matt Weiters on their roles last night. Enjoyed the post and all the comments. I'm celebrating the Orioles win, but mostly the greatest sport in the world.
September 29th, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Topper, that's a good one. I'm mentally lazy right now, so I just pulled up the answers with the ol' search-and-Excel routine, but I won't spoil it for anyone else.
Surprised to find that Willie Stargell almost made the list, at 999 [SO-BB].
More surprised to find that Tony Armas didn't make it -- but given that his career was just 5,502 PAs and he still came away with 941 [SO-BB], you have to give him dishonorable mention.
If we look at SO/BB ratios of all players with at least 1,000 Ks, Armas ranks #2 all-time at 4.6 SO/BB; he and Shawon Dunston (4.9) stand apart as the only such players with a ratio over 4.
September 29th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
In the Rays' win last night, Dan Johnson and Evan Longoria each had net Win Probability Added totals for the game of over 48% (Evan was at 50% and Dan at 49%). A few facts about games in which one team has two hitters with net WPA of 49% or higher:
--There were only three such games in the majors in 2011, inlcuding last night's game in Tampa.
--All three of those games were by the Rays! In addition to last night's game for the ages, there was the August 4 win over Toronto in which the Jays and Rays each scored one run in the tenth, and then each scored two runs in the 11th, before the Rays scored an unmatched run in the 12th. And on June 11th, Tampa tied the O's with two outs in the ninth and then won in the 11th, with Ben Zobrist repeatedly scoring key runs and Casey Kotchman driving them in.
--There was only one MLB game in all of 2010 in which two hitters had WPAs of .49 or over: Yankees over Boston on May 17, when A-Rod tied the score with a two-run homer in the bottom of the ninth and Marcus Thames followed with a walkoff two-run homer (all off of Papelbon).
-The last time any NL team had a game in which two of their batters had WPAs of 49% or more was back on May 5, 2009 when the Rockies beat the Padres led by Clint Barmes's 4 hits (including two doubles, a triple, a stolen base, and a single in the ninth after which he came around to score the tying run) and Brad Hawpe's 3 for 4 including a homer and a ninth inning walkoff double.
September 29th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
A day that will live in baseball infamy!
September 29th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
I've been wondering how the games last night will influence award-voters. Carl Crawford loses any chance of putting a 2011 Gold Glove on the mantel next to his 2010 award. AL MVP? I'm now thinking that Verlander has the inside edge. AL Manager of the Year? Joe Maddon (thanks to last night).
September 29th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
@ 138: Ivan Rodriguez, certainly... Sammy Sosa, maybe? Jose Canseco?
September 29th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Jacob -- "Certainly" ... not!
September 29th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
It could fall to Verlander, but suspect it will go to Granderson or Cabrera. I'd still vote Ellsbury.
September 29th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
Will Longoria get more votes now? Doubt he finishes higher than 3-4th. His Avg and OBP were pretty low.
September 29th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
@144, Pudge is wrong 513 to 1474.
Sosa and Canseco are correct.
Remember the tricky part is that you can't just go by guys who never walk because often those guys don't stick around long enough in the AB to strikeout either.
September 29th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Why should Longoria get any votes at all? Because he hit a couple of HRs off a pair of goofs?
September 29th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
That's what I love about baseball. Even when my team was eliminated before the All Star Game, I can still enjoy a season finish like last night. Even when I had no favorites for any Wild Card, last night was a night of baseball to remember. What a way to finish the season!
A couple of nights ago, I watched the D-Backs comeback against the Dodgers, and I am still amazed. Last night, well, what can I say, unbelievable
I truly love baseball.
September 29th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
@138...Mike Cameron?
September 29th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
JA that is a great headline! I don't believe what I just saw! What a great night for baseball.
September 29th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Nice work JDV, Mike Cameron is correct. By the way he is #8 all time on the strikeout list
September 29th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
@ 138
Reggie Jackson, Galarraga, Dale Murphy?
September 29th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
@Trivia Question: Do we have another Rob Deer sighting?
September 29th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
@149, Todd -- Longoria might get some MVP votes based on the combination of a respectable 6th-place ranking among AL position players in Wins Above Replacement (B-R formula) and some big games down the stretch, including a number of key defensive plays that don't show up in WPA or batting game logs.
He even had some HRs in the last 2 weeks off presumed non-goofs like Josh Beckett.
September 29th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Hi, Luis!
We are the "We Love Baseball!" club.
September 29th, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Reggie Jackson and Andres Galarraga are correct, Murphy is not, 986 BB 1748 K.
And no, this question is not stuck in the headlights, Rob Deer did try his hardest to get there in only 4512 PA but came up short 575 BB to 1409 K
3 remain, and 2 of them I would say are the hard ones.
September 29th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
@51, Todd: "a 7-run lead isn't that big if you are going to throw a bunch of double A guys in there to hold it"
Who are the double-A guys, Todd? Who are the "goofs" from your #149?
Yeah, we know about Scott Proctor. But surely you can't be including Luis Ayala in the same group. Ayala had himself a nice little year with the Yankees (2.09 ERA in 56 IP despite the HR by Longoria) and has had a good MLB career.
And by the way -- I'll take a lineup of "AA guys" with a 7-run lead and 6 outs to go, any day of the week.
September 29th, 2011 at 3:39 pm
JA: Can we get list of the correct ones?
September 29th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
All in all, a great night for baseball, even if I am a Red Sox fan.
One thought: after the winning run was singled in, Andino seemed very angry. While i have no problem with the celebration, after looking at the tape i see a lot of that NBA type of fist pumping scowl.
Isn't the whole idea of a celebration to, well.... Celebrate? Why so angry?
September 29th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
Niger Morgan vs Chris Carpenter?
Anyone?
September 29th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
So, we have Jackson, Galarraga, Soriano, Sosa, Canseco.
Is Dave Kingman another Topper (sorry JA, I spaced who started the quiz thread)?
September 29th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Add Cameron. If Kingman is right, there's 2 left?
September 29th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
Kingman is correct, the next 2 guys are tough.
Hint: they each made exactly 3 all-star teams, the more recent player's career started the year after the older guy retired.
September 29th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
I cheated.....I checked. Lee May and Jose Hernandez. Kingman was a legit guess though.
September 29th, 2011 at 5:50 pm
The whole day started off just fine for me when my Jays scored 2 in the 9th on consecutive base-loaded walks to edge the other Sox. Finished 81-81 for a year when they were supposed to be laying low.
September 29th, 2011 at 5:58 pm
There must be another one we're leaving out since Jose Hernendez only made 1 all-star game and didn't start his career until 9 years after Lee May retired.
September 29th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Hernandez: 384BB:1391 Ks
September 29th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
For me, that was probably the most exciting night of baseball I've experienced that didn't involve my Reds. But as a lifelong Reds fan, I can't put it ahead of game 5 of the '72 LCS, game 7 of the '75 WS, or all 4 games of the '90 WS - your own teams big wins are always the best...
September 29th, 2011 at 6:04 pm
@166, the way it works around here is if you cheat you don't give the answers away! If you want to make some comment like I had to cheat but this answer really surprised me or I never would have got him, that's fine.
I missed Jose Hernandez, I think I figured there was no way a guy could have less than 400 walks and more than 1300 Ks. I had to find them manually so I missed him, I don't think you can use the play index to make this exact list.
There is still one more guy in the "club" along with
Jackson
Sosa
Galarraga
Canseco
Kingman
Cameron
Soriano
May
Hernandez
September 29th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Well, the Jose Hernandez find was my angle of giving up some goods....i knew he must have been left out when i posted my first blog. Either way, my bad.....I'll leave the last one to others (it is a surprising one, but a tad easier than Jose Hernandez IMO). 🙂
September 29th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Maybe, but Jose Hernandez had to be benched for the final 4 games of 2002 so he wouldn't set the all-time single season strikeout record. At the time he had 188 Ks and Bobby Bonds had 189. Little did Jose Hernandez know there was a certain high school sophomore from Virginia who would go on to shatter the record.
September 29th, 2011 at 7:37 pm
Topper,
If you are in the trivia mood, Justin Verlander just had a historic season.
Over 250 IP
Over 250 SO
Whip under 1
ERA+ above 150.
Since the live ball era, only 9 other pitchers have had such a season.
Care to guess at them.
(hint: one guy did it 3 times, another twice, the other 7, one a piece & they all played in the expansion era).
If you get 4 I’ll be impressed.
September 29th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
Also Topper,
There were 4 guys who struck out 175 or more times this year. Raising the total seasons of 175+ SOs to 40.
Of the 4 guys this year, 3 of them finished 40th, 39th,and 38th for RBIs with that many Ks.
You’d think the trade-off for such a high total, would be production. Oh, by the way. Jose Hernandez was last on that list in RBIs, but now is 37th, 33rd and 30th. Just an all around bad player.
So who are the mystery three?
September 29th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
@174, the WHIP requirement may be the hardest, I'm not too sure on those numbers over the years. I think that disqualifies Ryan, too many walks. I think the innings eliminate Pedro (and most recent guys). I think the Ks eliminate Maddux, maybe because his best years were during the strike.
Clemens 86
Gooden 85
Gibson 68
Smoltz 96
R Johnson 01 (or maybe 02)
Carlton 72
Schilling 02 (or maybe 01)
Seaver the guy with 2
Koufax the guy with 3
September 29th, 2011 at 8:30 pm
Actually I think Denny McClain 68 is probably in there, not sure which one of mine is wrong.
September 29th, 2011 at 9:41 pm
Topper
Your pretty spot on, even in your deduction.
No Clemens, Johnson, Smoltz or Schiling however.
So 5 of 9, then you nabbed McClain. 6-9
Another hint: stick with ’68.
Then the next guy had one of the best non-rookie Rookie years, and was never nearly as good again.
Then the last guy is nearly impossible to guess.
HE is so arcane, you might of even forgot how good he was for a few years.
What’s interesting is if you leave out the 150 ERA+, two pretty interesting names show up. Frank Tannana & Schilling.
And if you take off the WHIP threshold of 1, a whole bunch of unexpected names jump out at you.
CC Sabathia-2008
Randy Johnson-2002
Curt Schilling-2001
Randy Johnson-1999
Kevin Brown -1998
Roger Clemens-1997
Roger Clemens-1987
Steve Carlton-1980
Bert Blyleven-1973
Bob Gibson −1969
Sam McDowell-1968
Sam McDowell-1965
Hal Newhouser-1946
Bob Feller-1946
Bob Feller-1940
Dazzy Vance-1924
I‘m surprised Gator Guidry doesn’t make any list.
Here’s a link to the original criteria. I left the old timers in.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=p#ajax_result_table::none
September 29th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
@178
Guidry missed the list by 2 strikeouts.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:35 pm
Chester and Topper, if you guys are still out there. just fiddling with the play index, seeing how many pitchers there are on those lists who had an 8 WAR and I came across something pretty crazy. Only one pitcher had a WAR > 8 with less than 100 SOs.
It’s probably in your guy’s lifetime or pretty close. I’m not great with guessing ages.
The next closest guy on the mystery man’s trail is Ned Garver, who in 1950, led the American League in WAR, 7.1 - despite striking out 85 and walking 109. Makes you wonder about WAR.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:46 pm
@180
In 1976 Mark Fidrych had a WAR of 8.5 with 97 SO. It was very easily in my lifetime. So was Garver's but not that easily.
September 29th, 2011 at 10:58 pm
@180
I also found:
Jack Taylor..............1902....7.8 WAR.....88 SO
Jim Bagby...............1920....7.7 WAR....73 SO
Stan Coveleskie....1918.....7.5 WAR....87 SO
September 29th, 2011 at 11:00 pm
@178, your clues has led me to Vida Blue 71.
the other '68: ummmmm Marichal
And for your super obscure guy I will guess Dave Stieb.
@180, 8 WAR but < 100 K makes me think of Lefty Grove or Warren Spahn, but based on your lifetime hint I think not. Maybe Catfish? I think he had pretty low strikeout totals
September 29th, 2011 at 11:13 pm
I guess I was late to the party on the < 100 K list. I just found 1975 Randy Jones, 103 K, 7.7 WAR
September 29th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
Who was the last switch hitter in each league to win the MVP?
September 29th, 2011 at 11:55 pm
@185: That's a trick question....
NL: Jimmy Rollins, 2007
AL: Vida Blue, 1971
September 29th, 2011 at 11:56 pm
@174
The other 3 guys are:
Luis Tiant......1968
Vida Blue......1971
Mike Scott....1986
I found them with PI.
September 29th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
Topper009, I assume Chipper is the NL answer
And I'm probably dead wrong in AL, but Mickey Mantle?
September 29th, 2011 at 11:57 pm
Both wrong
September 29th, 2011 at 11:58 pm
Ahhh, forgot about Rollins actually.
September 29th, 2011 at 11:58 pm
186 is right, trick question, Vida Blue reminded me of it
September 30th, 2011 at 1:41 am
To go along with 8 WAR with < 100 K, here are the top WAR seasons with < 100 hits from a batter
WAR H Year Tm G
6.2... 95 1918 BOS Babe Ruth
5.5... 87 1995 OAK Mark McGwire
5.4... 90 1978 SDP Gene Tenace
5.0... 94 1949 NYY Joe DiMaggio
September 30th, 2011 at 9:22 am
Mike Scott!
That was such a freak year.
He did have another season where he won more (20 in’89) but his WAR was just 2.8 that year.
I’m a Mets fan and ’86 was when I first watched baseball with a critical eye.
That year, there were tons of claims, especially from the Mets that Scott was doctoring the ball. Nothing much was made of it after the Astros lost and Scott faded, but he was so far ahead of what he did before and since, it makes one wonder.
He averaged 4.5 SO per 9, 9.5 hits per 9, a WHIP of 1.37 in 680 IP from ’79 to 85, then 10 so per 9, 5.9 hits per 9, a whip of .923 in 275.33 IP in ’86.
September 30th, 2011 at 11:25 am
Mike Scott... even the 'stros fans knew something was up. They would bring signs to the Astrodome that read: "The Right Scuff." He threw a no-hitter that year too, didn't he?
The 1986 postseason is wildly underrated, by the way. Both pennant series were great battles, followed by a strong seven-game World Series. All the playoff teams had great players: Doc and Straw in their prime, and Hernandez and Carter; Houston with Ryan and Scott and Glenn Davis; Boston with Clemens, Boggs, Rice, and Dewey Evans; the Angels with Wally World, and good years from Downing and Jackson and DeCinces.
September 30th, 2011 at 12:11 pm
@194, Nightfly -- Where can I find the ratings of the postseasons? 🙂
Seriously, though -- I have no sense of the public sentiment on such things, but I would assume that anyone old enough to have followed the '86 postseason would rank it among the top 3 in the 2-division era. All 3 of the series that year were classics.
September 30th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
@195: Still Trying to figure out how to paste something.
Google--( tv ratings mlb playoffs 1976) tv by the numbers zap2it shows ALCS & NLCS from 1976-2007.
@98: typo: Cards game finished 10:25 p.m. Oops!
September 30th, 2011 at 11:53 pm
JA -
If you keep with your old posts, just letting you know; I never seen one hit 200 posts.
October 1st, 2011 at 12:55 am
Duke, we've definitely passed 200 before. Andy posted a list of the most-commented not long ago. Some of the HOF debates of last year got lots of posts. The Larry Walker one might have been around 400?
But this is up there. 100 is sort of a milestone on this blog.