Teammates With 200+ Ks
Posted by Steve Lombardi on September 10, 2011
Roy Halladay joined teammate Cliff Lee in the 200 K club last night. Prior to these two reaching that mark, how many other teams had 2+ pitchers on their staff with 200+ Ks on the season?
Here is the list -
| Rk | Year | Lg | Tm | #Matching | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1969 | NL | Houston Astros | 3 | Larry Dierker / Tom Griffin / Don Wilson |
| 2 | 1967 | AL | Minnesota Twins | 3 | Dave Boswell / Dean Chance / Jim Kaat |
| 3 | 2011 | AL | Tampa Bay Rays | 2 | David Price / James Shields |
| 4 | 2010 | NL | Philadelphia Phillies | 2 | Roy Halladay / Cole Hamels |
| 5 | 2010 | NL | San Francisco Giants | 2 | Tim Lincecum / Jonathan Sanchez |
| 6 | 2008 | AL | Toronto Blue Jays | 2 | A.J. Burnett / Roy Halladay |
| 7 | 2004 | AL | Boston Red Sox | 2 | Pedro Martinez / Curt Schilling |
| 8 | 2004 | NL | Houston Astros | 2 | Roger Clemens / Roy Oswalt |
| 9 | 2003 | NL | Chicago Cubs | 2 | Mark Prior / Kerry Wood |
| 10 | 2002 | NL | Arizona Diamondbacks | 2 | Randy Johnson / Curt Schilling |
| 11 | 2002 | NL | Chicago Cubs | 2 | Matt Clement / Kerry Wood |
| 12 | 2001 | NL | Arizona Diamondbacks | 2 | Randy Johnson / Curt Schilling |
| 13 | 2001 | AL | New York Yankees | 2 | Roger Clemens / Mike Mussina |
| 14 | 2000 | NL | Los Angeles Dodgers | 2 | Kevin Brown / Chan Ho Park |
| 15 | 1996 | NL | Houston Astros | 2 | Darryl Kile / Shane Reynolds |
| 16 | 1996 | NL | Montreal Expos | 2 | Jeff Fassero / Pedro Martinez |
| 17 | 1990 | NL | New York Mets | 2 | David Cone / Dwight Gooden |
| 18 | 1990 | AL | Texas Rangers | 2 | Nolan Ryan / Bobby Witt |
| 19 | 1987 | NL | Houston Astros | 2 | Nolan Ryan / Mike Scott |
| 20 | 1986 | AL | California Angels | 2 | Kirk McCaskill / Mike Witt |
| 21 | 1986 | NL | New York Mets | 2 | Sid Fernandez / Dwight Gooden |
| 22 | 1977 | AL | California Angels | 2 | Nolan Ryan / Frank Tanana |
| 23 | 1976 | AL | California Angels | 2 | Nolan Ryan / Frank Tanana |
| 24 | 1976 | NL | New York Mets | 2 | Jerry Koosman / Tom Seaver |
| 25 | 1973 | AL | California Angels | 2 | Nolan Ryan / Bill Singer |
| 26 | 1973 | AL | Detroit Tigers | 2 | Joe Coleman / Mickey Lolich |
| 27 | 1973 | NL | New York Mets | 2 | Jon Matlack / Tom Seaver |
| 28 | 1972 | AL | Detroit Tigers | 2 | Joe Coleman / Mickey Lolich |
| 29 | 1971 | AL | Chicago White Sox | 2 | Tom Bradley / Wilbur Wood |
| 30 | 1971 | AL | Detroit Tigers | 2 | Joe Coleman / Mickey Lolich |
| 31 | 1970 | NL | Chicago Cubs | 2 | Ken Holtzman / Fergie Jenkins |
| 32 | 1969 | NL | Los Angeles Dodgers | 2 | Bill Singer / Don Sutton |
| 33 | 1969 | NL | San Francisco Giants | 2 | Juan Marichal / Gaylord Perry |
| 34 | 1969 | NL | St. Louis Cardinals | 2 | Steve Carlton / Bob Gibson |
| 35 | 1968 | AL | Cleveland Indians | 2 | Sam McDowell / Luis Tiant |
| 36 | 1968 | NL | San Francisco Giants | 2 | Juan Marichal / Ray Sadecki |
| 37 | 1967 | AL | Cleveland Indians | 2 | Sam McDowell / Luis Tiant |
| 38 | 1966 | NL | Los Angeles Dodgers | 2 | Sandy Koufax / Don Sutton |
| 39 | 1966 | NL | San Francisco Giants | 2 | Juan Marichal / Gaylord Perry |
| 40 | 1965 | NL | Los Angeles Dodgers | 2 | Don Drysdale / Sandy Koufax |
| 41 | 1965 | NL | Philadelphia Phillies | 2 | Jim Bunning / Chris Short |
| 42 | 1964 | NL | Los Angeles Dodgers | 2 | Don Drysdale / Sandy Koufax |
| 43 | 1963 | NL | Los Angeles Dodgers | 2 | Don Drysdale / Sandy Koufax |
| 44 | 1962 | NL | Los Angeles Dodgers | 2 | Don Drysdale / Sandy Koufax |
| 45 | 1961 | NL | Los Angeles Dodgers | 2 | Sandy Koufax / Stan Williams |
| 46 | 1914 | FL | Indianapolis Hoosiers | 2 | Cy Falkenberg / Earl Moseley |
| 47 | 1905 | AL | Philadelphia Athletics | 2 | Eddie Plank / Rube Waddell |
| 48 | 1904 | AL | New York Highlanders | 2 | Jack Chesbro / Jack Powell |
| 49 | 1904 | AL | Philadelphia Athletics | 2 | Eddie Plank / Rube Waddell |
.
Can Cole Hamels make it a trio this season for the Phillies? If he does, they'll be only the third set of teammates to pull this trick.
September 10th, 2011 at 9:51 am
The 2010 Diamondbacks almost pulled it off - except Adam LaRoche only struck out 172 times to go along with Mark Reynolds' 211.
September 10th, 2011 at 10:21 am
Thomas @ 1 When I read the headline my first thought was that the only team that could possibly qualify were last years D'backs.
But this list is almost as surprising. A lot of names you expect to see: Koufax/Drysdale, McDowell/Tiant, Johnson/Schilling, Prior/Wood and Ryan/whoever. But even though I thought I knew a fair amount of baseball history and grew up in the 60's I doubt that I would ever have guessed that the '67 Twins and '69 Astros would be the only 2 teams with 3 pitchers on the list.
September 10th, 2011 at 10:27 am
Pitchers on your list from 1967 to 1969
Some unscientific observations
Age when they first had 200 strikeouts and year, number of years with 200, age at last year in majors
21 (1969), 1, 34 Tom Griffin, Astros (became a reliever) Astros
21 (1966), 4, 43 Don Sutton, HOF
22 (1967), 1, 26 Dave Boswell, Twins (became a reliever his last year)
22 (1969), 1, 30 Larry Dierker, Astros
22 (1965), 6, 34 Sam McDowell
23 (1964), 3, 30 Dean Chance, Twins (became a reliever/starter)
24 (1969), 1, 29 Don Wilson, Astros (passed away)
24 (1968), 3, 33 Bill Singer
24 (1969), 8, 43 Steve Carlton, HOF
25 (1963), 6, 37 Juan Marichal, HOF
26 (1967), 3, 41 Luis Tiant
26 (1962), 9, 39 Bob Gibson, HOF
27 (1968), 1, 36 Ray Sadecki, (became a reliever at 31)
27 (1966), 2, 44 Jim Kaat, Twins
27 (1966), 8, 44 Gaylord Perry, HOF
From 1963 to 1970 to SO/IP ratio was high versus the decade before and after. So those who got their first 200 SO year earlier in the 1960s should have more years with 200 SOs. Of the pitchers who had their first year 1966 or earlier, 5 of 7, had 4 or more 200 SO years. Of those who reached 200 for the first time from 1967 to 1969, 1 of 8 went 4 or more.
5 of the 6 pitchers on the 1967 Twins and 1969 Astros were 24 and under. All 6 were in the 3 and under 200 SO year group. With the decline in strikeouts after 1970, you would expect the younger pitchers to have "less of an opportunity to strike out 200". We're looking at the tail end of a high strikeout era.
From 1915 to 1960, no teams had 2 pitchers over 200.
From 1961 to 1973, there were 45 teams. SO/IP peaked from 1962 to 1970 in the majors.
Between 1976 and 1990 there were 8. Thank you Nolan Ryan and Dwight Gooden for 6 of those.
Most of the pitchers who hit 200 SOs at 24 did not pitch after the age of 35. We've had discussions about this trend in an earlier blog with young starting pitchers with 200 IP.
September 10th, 2011 at 10:34 am
The Mets made the list 4 times.
I would have guessed however, that they would have had more than 2 seasons during that 1968-1976 stretch. Looks like Koosman and Matlack both had seasons where they fell just short of 200
September 10th, 2011 at 10:38 am
@3 Charles
"Most of the pitchers who hit 200 SOs at 24 did not pitch after the age of 35."
The majority of pitchers in-general do not pitch after the age of 35........regardless of how many K's or IP they had at age 24.
September 10th, 2011 at 10:39 am
How about Lolich-Coleman for 3 straight years, 1971-73? Koufax-Drysdale had 4 straight, though under slightly more favorable circumstances.
Looks like those are the only teammates who did this at least 3 times, though I may be overlooking someone.
And Mickey was 3 Ks shy of adding another season to this list, 1968 with McLain.
September 10th, 2011 at 10:40 am
Growing up in the 70's when every year had someone strikeout 300, I'm surprised there are only two teams with 3. I guess the 60's and 70's are when the long term trend of higher strikeouts overlapped with the long term trend of fewer innings for starters.
September 10th, 2011 at 10:44 am
@6 JA - Koufax/Drysdale did it 4 straight years.
September 10th, 2011 at 10:46 am
@5 true
Please realize that I'm looking at the length of career for those who hit 200 for the first time at age 24 or younger vs those who hit 200 for the first time at age 25 or older (in this narrow time frame). My disclaimer is "some unscientific observations".
September 10th, 2011 at 10:53 am
I was surprised not to see any of the Lefty Grove era A's teams on there, but it looks like the closest they came was 1930: Grove with 209, Earnshaw with 193.
September 10th, 2011 at 11:21 am
From 1904 to 1914, 17 pitchers had 34 seasons with 200 or more strikeouts.
From 1915 to 1960, 15 pitchers had 28 seasons with 200 or more strikeouts.
From 1961 to 2011, 148 pitchers had 382 seasons with 200 or more strikeouts.
From 1915 to 1960, 161 pitchers had 376 seasons with 130 or more strikeouts.
September 10th, 2011 at 11:43 am
No surprise really to see so few seasons before 1960 where this happened--the emphasis for strikeouts for pitchers is a relatively "modern" thing. Walter Johnson only hit 200 Ks seven times in his career; Bob Feller only did it five times (though I'm sure he'd have more w/o the war years).
I think this also ties in to the trend of fewer complete games. Pitchers throw harder now and pretty much let it all out to every batter they face. According to things I've read about pitching before 1950, they paced themselves and changed their pitching tactic for each batter. Now, it's "throw as hard as you can as long as you can." I would say that pitchers use more breaking pitches now, too--though I clearly have no evidence of that.
Of course, hitters have changed their approach in modern times with fewer protecting the plate with two strikes, which also increases K numbers.
September 10th, 2011 at 11:43 am
2001 diamondbacks were so close to having 2 pitchers with 300 k's.
curt shilling had 293. randy johnson had 372.
The rest of that pitching staff was pretty bad for a championship team. In fact, Steve Finley got a chance to pitch in this game: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ARI/ARI200108300.shtml
He got out of the inning with no damage despite walking and hitting a batter. But I can't figure out why Brenly put him in. The bullpen was not overworked previous to this game.
September 10th, 2011 at 11:52 am
and they both got 300k's in 2002 BTW.
any other pitching pairs get to that landmark?
September 10th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
I looked at all the 200 SO pitchers from 1967-1969.
Excluding the HOFs
First year with 200 SOs, number of years with 200 SOs
1964 2,3,3,4
1965 2,6,7
1966 2
1967 1,1,1,1,3
1968 1,1,3
1969 1,1,1
The earlier you start, the more you get.
Age when first struck out 200, ages at last year in majors
19, 29 (Gary Nolan)
21, 34 (Tom Griffin, varied as a starter, reliever, starter/reliever in his career)
22, 26, 30, 34
23, 30, 33
24, 28, 33, 38
Age 24 and under, 1/10 pitched past 34
Age 25 and older, 7/8 pitched past 34
25, 32, 37
26, 41
27, 35, 35, 36, 44
28, 38 (Bob Veale, 1st year as a starter, 3rd year in majors)
30, 40 (Mike Cuellar, 2nd year as a regular starter)
Remember that we're only looking at a 3 year period. I'm sure the first table would look different if you looked at 1964-1966. I can't say for sure about the second.
September 10th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
The 25 YO who pitched until he was 32 was Dave McNally. He had one 200 SO season in 9 years pitching 162 innings.
The 24 YO who pitched until he was 38 was Mickey Lolich. He had seven 200 SO seasons in 13 years pitching 162 innings.
September 10th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@Mik - re: Steve Finley - DBacks fan and I watched that game. It was 13-3 going into the 9th which is basically a lost cause. I can tell you Finley received an EXTREMELY generous call on the DP at 1B to end the inning. I thought DUnston beat the throw
As for 300k pitcher, there haven't been many teammates who struck out 300 at any point in their career much less the same season. Just eyeballing the career list (& not counting 1800's pitchers), the only 300k teammates were: Schilling/Johnson, Ryan/Richard, Ryan/Scott, Blue/Carlton (1986 Giants, you can usually stump even hardcore fans with that one). Of those, it looks like Schilling/Johnson are the only ones to do it as teammates.
September 10th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Actually, Koufax did this six years in a row, 1961 with Stan Williams, 1962-65 with Drysdale, and 1966 with Don Sutton.
September 10th, 2011 at 12:45 pm
Oh, re: 300K teammates - I forgot Pedro/Schilling.
Oops
September 10th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
I was willing to bet that the Astros had a season where Ryan/Richard or Ryan/Scott both reached 300K's.
Upon further review....it never happened.
September 10th, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Hall of Famers who struck out 200 from 1967 to 1969.
If included with the above group
The 24 and under group would be 5/14 pitched past 34, 4 HOFers
The 25 and older group would be 11/12 pitched past 34, 4 HOFers
September 11th, 2011 at 1:30 am
Giants have a (very) outside chance at having 3 guys with 200. Lincecum already has his. Bumgarner is at 170 and Cain is at 164. With 3 starts left for each (possibly 4 for Bumgarner, whose turn would be up again on the last day of the season), they could conceivably reach 200. Cain, of course, with only 1 double-digit K game this year, and never in his career topping 12 in a game, will almost certainly finish in the 180s. But Bumgarner does have 3 10+ games in his last 6 starts, including 13 in his last start. So my guess would be, assuming we don't shut him down once we're OFFICIALLY eliminated, he'll end up in the mid 190s. Would be the first time since 1973 that 3 teams would have had 2+ guys reach 200K.
September 11th, 2011 at 2:48 am
@14, Mik.
"and they (Schilling, Johnson) both got 300k's in 2002 BTW.
any other pitching pairs get to that landmark?"
Answer is No. Going all the way back to 1871, the 2002 D-Backs are the only team having 2 pitchers with 300 Ks.
September 12th, 2011 at 12:20 am
But the 1884 NY Met(ropolitan)s did have Tim Keefe with 334 K and....Jack Lynch with 292.
Where was Mickey Welch? Well, he had 345 K for the Giants that season. He had teamed with Keefe on the Troy Trojans 1880-2. I don't know the exact history, but Troy folded and many of the Trojans (including Welch) ended up with the new NY Gothams (aka Giants). Meanwhile Keefe moved to the New York Metropolitans of the American Association for a couple seasons, before rejoining Welch with the Giants in 1885. They combined for 324 wins over the next 5 seasons. Combined with their Trojans stats, that's 434 combined victories. Can any teammates top that?
Meanwhile, 1884 was Jack Lynch's only good season. He finished with a 110-105 record, 89 ERA+.