50 Responses to “Cole Hamels triples”

1. KB Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 9:29 pm

   Interesting the way multiple pitchers hit multiple triples in the same seasons. The last 10 have came in only 6 unique years.

2. fredsbank Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 9:48 pm

   nice to see don larsen on a list of anything other than 'guys who threw a perfect game'

3. Thomas Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 10:18 pm

   In regards to the No-Hitter that may be finishing up right now...

   Has anyone ever lost a no hitter and the game on a walk off hit?

4. John Autin Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 10:23 pm

   @3, Thomas -- Bill Bevens, 1947 WS game 4.
   http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BRO/BRO194710030.shtml

5. blahblahblah Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 10:23 pm

   Liriano in his no-hitter had 6 BBs and only 2 Ks - how often has a pitcher had more walks than strikeouts in a no hitter?! Incredible.

6. John Autin Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 10:26 pm

   @5, Blah -- Since 1919, there've been 21 CG no-hitters with more walks than Ks, including Edwin Jackson last year (8 walks, 6 Ks) and A.J. Burnett in 2001 (9, 7).

7. John Autin Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 10:27 pm

   In case anyone needs an instant link to Liriano's no-no:
   http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=310503104&teams=minnesota-twins-vs-chicago-white-sox

8. Neil L. Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 10:27 pm

   Dontrelle rules despite his short career. Three times in one season.

   I can't imagine a pitcher like C.C. Sabathia legging out a triple any time soon in inter-league play.

   Why would a pitcher try to stretch a double into a triple anyway? Less distance to deliver the pitching jacket from the 3B dugout?

   Must be the competitive instinct of the pitcher 'er ... baserunnerr.

   Andy, this relates, I think, to threads in a recent blog about the offensive contribution of pitchers.

9. John Autin Says:
   May 3rd, 2011 at 10:31 pm

   And of course, the losing pitcher against Liriano was Edwin Jackson, allowing 1 run in 8 IP. Jackson's no-hitter was also a 1-0 game, as was Roy Halladay's last year. Other 1-0 no-nos in recent memory: Kevin Millwood, 2003; Jose Jimenez, 1999; and the perfect games by Tom Browning (1988) and Mike Witt (1984).

10. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    No triples in tonight's no-hitter....

11. Jeff Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Aww, I miss D-Train so much. I was such a big fan. I live just like 15 mins from Encinal HS where he (and Jimmy Rollins) went to school. I was excited that the Giants signed him last year, and really hoped he would somehow do amazing in the minors and get called up for the playoff run. Alas, twas not to be. Hey, he's killing it down in Cincy's AAA, I can still hope, right?

12. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Neil L, don't be so quick to dismiss C.C.'s tripling potential. He's a career .258 hitter (25 for 97) with 3 doubles and 3 HRs. I don't really know about his speed, but he's a better athlete than one might think from looking at him.

13. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Speaking of Dontrelle, he had 1 AB in the minors last year -- and hit a 2-run triple.

14. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    So, Liriano has joined Bobo Holloman in throwing a no-hitter for his first career CG. Any others?

15. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    (Answering my own question @14....)
    Liriano, Jonathan Sanchez, Bud Smith and Bob Holloman are the only pitchers since 1919 with a no-hitter as their only CG.

16. Spartan Bill Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    Dontrelle Willis #33 on the Marlins all-time list.

17. Donny Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    ^just off the top of my head: Wilson Alvarez, Clay Buchholz, Kent Mercker, Derek Lowe, Jose Jimenez.... mostly rookies or pitchers better known as relievers (as Lowe was before 2002)

    Wouldn't surprise me if this is the most starts into a career before throwing a CG, which happened to be a no-no.

18. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    @ 3
    Wasn't Harvey Haddix's No-No ended with a walk-off, or was it two consecutive hits.
    I guess that's what the game log + link to box score is for...

19. Neil L. Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:55 pm

    @5 @6

    Better to be wild that throw strikes when you're pitching a no-hitter.

    @13
    John Autin, careful, you'll have me thinking that Dontrelle Willis was a triples machine.

    Off-topic but do triples correlate more to batter speed or to the configuration of the home park? Speaking of the steroid/post-steoid era only.

    The triple has to be the most exciting play in baseball, no?

20. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Nine active players have at least 5 times as many PAs as Dontrelle and fewer triples than his 5. The non-catchers: Juan Rivera (3 in 3,017 PAs), Jack Cust (1 in 2,418) and Billy Butler (3 in 2,309).

21. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:04 pm

    Hey Guys,

    I wouldn't say good-bye to the D-train. He is young enough to comeback, plus most of his problems, unless I am mistaken, were mental - throwing strikes and anxiety? Right.
    I hope to see him get well and come back, he was really one of the more upbeat, enthusiastic, happy-go-lucky guys in the sport. Sorta the anti Milton Bradley.
    I think it says a lot about athletics in general, that semi-current ball players are all publicly addressing problems stemming from anxiety and depression. Greene, Greinke, Ankiel and Willis.
    Old stereotypes and social mores have probably kept many more ball players from having healthy outlets to express and acknowledge their disorders and receive help.
    Who knows, maybe the untimely deaths of Caminiti and Beck from substance abuse, were really guys self medicating to the point of addiction to cope with the stresses of the game.
    I think a healthy come-back from Dontrel would be a great story.

22. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    Neil L -- Well, an inside-the-park HR has been known to get a few fans to their feet....

    BTW, Dontrelle did have a high rate of triples, relative to the league average. In 2007, NL non-pitchers averaged 3.14 triples per 600 PAs. For his career, Dontrelle averaged 7.26 triples per 600 PAs.

23. Neil L. Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    @22
    True JA, but I guess I was talking about a common offensive play. Who would ever be thrown out at the plate trying to stretch a triple into an inside-the-park homer?

    BTW, John, when is your first baseball book being published? My credit card is warmed up and ready. (lol)

24. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:18 pm

    @21, Duke -- I'm absolutely rooting for Dontrelle 100%. And yes, he is only 29.

    I just wish I could think of a pitcher who has overcome the type of psychological issue that has bedeviled Dontrelle -- assuming it is that type of issue that has prevented him from throwing strikes for the last 3 years, in which he's averaged almost a walk per inning.

    And while I'd like to see hope in the success he's currently having at AAA, Louisville is not the major leagues.

25. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:23 pm

    @ Neil L.
    I agree. Nothing beats a triple.
    Not even a 450ft bomb. Sad thing is; no one even tries to leg them out anymore.
    Clemente was the last player in '72 to amass 150 three baggers.
    And if you run the play index for guys over 100 triples, very few played after the strike, and those who did, had most of there triples in hand before '94.
    But luckily, there seems to be a new crop of ball players making the triple all the vogue.
    Both Crawford and Reyes seem sure to get to 150 triples.
    Crawford is already there, and amazinly has more triples than homers. One of the few players in the live ball to have more than 100 3Bs and 3B > HR.
    I hope playing in Fenway does not cut down his triples.
    I'd like to see a guy get to 200 and I think him or Reyes has a shot.

26. John Autin Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    Neil L, look for "The John Autin Historical Baseball (Extremely) Abstract (and Unbelievably Tangential)" tome to hit bookstores sometime around 2020. (If there are any bookstores left by then.)

27. Neil L. Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    @26
    JA, $29.99 American or Canadian? He-he.

28. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    JA
    Yeah, D-Train just seems so positive and decent for the game. He had/has that electric smile, the eccentric leg kick, gave great interviews, plus he was raised by a single Mom and really stressed how important she was to his onfield success, truly shaking the old ideas that you need a dad to teach you baseball.
    He was good for the whole sport.
    Lets keep our fingers crossed, I mean if the Mets can give Perez 36 million for 4 wins and a horrible attitude, why not gamble on a nice guy?

29. Neil L. Says:
    May 3rd, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    @25
    Duke, I think your post has a lot of significance. How many hitters chug into 2B accepting a double instead of trying to test the OF's arm and the relay to obtain a triple?

    The advantage of having a runner at 3B compared to 2B is huge in terms of ways to score.

    Two hundred career triples would be an unbelievable milestone, more than huge stolen base numbers or HR numbers because of its rarity!

30. Johnny Twisto Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 12:01 am

    I think Willis's problems are mainly because he's 30 lbs heavier than when he came up and he no longer has the mechanics he did then. He never figured out how to pitch with his bigger body. He was struggling long before his "anxiety" problems appeared.

    do triples correlate more to batter speed or to the configuration of the home park?

    Both are very important. Hard to say which matters more; it probably depends on the player, or the park.

31. Johnny Twisto Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 12:10 am

    I think Reyes is more likely to reach 200 triples than Crawford (but neither is that likely to do it). Crawford's got a more solid, stocky frame and I wouldn't be surprised if he slows down a fair amount in a few years (while also starting to hit more HR). Reyes has always looked faster to me, and looks more likely to maintain his speed to an older age (with the usual injury caveats, of course). Citifield also looks like a better triples park than Fenway.

32. Neil L. Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 12:26 am

    @31
    Johnny, the jury is still out on as to what kind of park Citifield is, isn't it? I'm not sure if it is triples-inducing or HR favorable. The construction is indeterminate in terms of pitching and hitting.

33. Stu Baron Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 12:29 am

    Ironically, Hamels had the only hit off RA Dickey in this game I attended at Citi Field last year... http://www.baseballreference.com/boxes/NYN/NYN201008130.shtml

34. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 12:36 am

    @JT
    Do agree with you about Crawford's bulkiness and his HR total going up. Batting him third might also make him mentally change his approach and alter his swing mechanics, which may explain his slow start, despite having far superior protection. But Crawford may get to 200/200 HR/3B which would be rare.
    I, as a New Yorker and a uber-Met Fan, do agree, citi field is the triplier(?) of the 2 parks and offers you some spectacular views of the action. I've seen 4 Reyes triples live and they are beautiful.
    One thing I always meant to discuss, is the mentality of a triple vs a homer on a pitcher. Obviously a solo homer puts up a number and may embarrass a pitcher's ego, but a pitcher with a good head can shake it off, still pitch from the wind-up, and go about his game plan, virtually not changing his game plan or pitch sequence to the next hitter, while the triple is a bit of a distraction. It introduces a dozen scenarios that depending on the game situation need to be considered.
    I am thinking in particular of Ellsbury stealing home on Pettitte as an example.
    I guess it depends on the pitcher. I imagine a CC Sabitia keeping his head and sticking to his game plan with a guy on third, where as a AJ burnett might get distracted and worried.
    just a thought.

35. Johnny Twisto Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 12:52 am

    Johnny, the jury is still out on as to what kind of park Citifield is, isn't it?

    Probably, but the spacious outfield seems conducive to triples, and it has played as a triples park in its brief lifetime.

    Of course, you get a few hitters whining about how it's too hard to hit homers, and those fences may come rushing in. Which would be a terrible shame.

36. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 1:06 am

    @ JT
    I remember when Juan Gonzalez whined the fences in at Comercia field (i think) then never really played seriously again.
    I totally love quirky park features. With the Astros' centerfield ramp being an exception.
    Isn't the whole point of the Citifields is to get away from the cookie cutter ugliness of the 70's.
    But I do thin Citi has affected hitters who are trying TOO much. David Wright is a prime example. After he drpped to 10 HRs, he started upper cutting and his SOs are up and AVG down. He could be a great double triple guy, he just needs to adjust.

37. Nash Bruce Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 7:33 am

    @Neil L (and sort of piggybacking on to Duke's comment) I'd nominate the steal of home, and/or the suicide squeeze (in whatever combination) as the most exciting baseball play. Delayed steal of home is just as awesome, and a TRIPLE steal would probably blow my skull off- I've never seen one!!

38. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 9:17 am

    @ NASH BRUCE,
    Couldn't agree with you more. Grew up watching the Mets coached by Davey Johnson at his small ballish best.
    Even though I think sabermetrics have given us so much more insight to the game and has improved managing strategies, I still think the occasional bunt or steal or squeeze is needed.

39. Larry R. Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 9:29 am

    @3,4,18

    Haddix did lose his on a walkoff. Adcock homered but passed Aaron on the basepaths, getting credit for just a double.

40. BSK Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    "I think Willis's problems are mainly because he's 30 lbs heavier than when he came up and he no longer has the mechanics he did then. He never figured out how to pitch with his bigger body. He was struggling long before his "anxiety" problems appeared."

    I remember scouts (or a scout, at least) writing that Willis's mechanics were too complicated and difficult to repeat. Perhaps owing to his body changing, injuries, or just the difficulty in maintaining such a convoluted throwing motion, he eventually lost the ability to do it.

    I also never put much stock into the "anxiety" problems. Not to downplay the reality and impact of mental health issues (something sports specifically and society in general still have a poor understanding of), but didn't the team insist they discovered the issues through a blood test?

41. John Autin Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    "Willis's mechanics were too complicated and difficult to repeat."

    "He never figured out how to pitch with his bigger body. He was struggling long before his "anxiety" problems appeared."

    I'm not denying that his mechanics are complicated or that he got heavier.
    But would that explain such an abrupt loss of strike-throwing ability?

    In 2007, when Dontrelle's ERA soared to 5.17, his season BB rate was 3.8 BB/9, still pretty close to his career rate before then (2.8).

    But right from the start of 2008, he was utterly wild, walking 7 in 5 innings his first time out; he finished that season (what little he pitched of it) with 35 walks in 24 IP; and he's remained wild (at the MLB level) ever since.

    I do remember, when the anxiety disorder diagnosis first made the news, thinking that it smacked of a convenient excuse (for both Dontrelle and Detroit). But on reflection, it seems reasonable.

    Plenty of guys have suddenly become unable to throw the ball accurately under pressure; a few I remember off the top of my head include Chuck Knoblauch, Steve Sax, Mackey Sasser, Dale Murphy in his catching days (I think). I don't know if "anxiety" is the precise diagnosis for them, but clearly it was something on the psychological side of the ball. Why not Dontrelle?

42. Rich Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Willis is pitching really well for the Reds AAA team. Maybe he'll be back this season.

43. LJF Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    the first player I remember having some sort of problem throwing accurately was Steve Blass. Blass was a good pitcher for the Pirates in the late 60's and early 70's. In '68 he was 18-6 with a 2.12 ERA, was off a little in '69 (although he had a 16-10 W/L record), then had three straight years with ERA+ of 111, 122 and 135 in 1972, when he went 19-8 with a 2.49 ERA and finished 2nd in the CYA. He walked 3.0 per 9, which was his career rate tot hat point in about 1500 IP. He was the winning pitcher in game 1 of the LCS, allowing 1 run in 8.1 IP and pitched very well in the deciding game 5, allowing 2 runs and 4 hits in 7.1, before the bullpen lost the lead and the series to the Reds. He was 30 years old with 100 major league wins and looked like he was headed for a very good career.

    Who knows what happened, but by 1972, he couldn't throw a strike - 84 BB in 89 IP and an ERA of 9.85 (and a WAR of -5.8!). He walked 7 in 5 IP in 1974 and was done as a major league pitcher (he also walked 103 in 61 IP at AAA that year). As far as I know, his sudden inability to throw strikes was never explained. He's been a Pirates broadcaster for many years now.

44. BSK Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    JA-

    Obviously, it is hard to ascertain the exact cause for the problem. I will weigh in with a few things:

    1.) I once got a case of the "yips" playing high school ball. I played SS and simply lost the ability to toss the ball to the 3B after throwing it around the horn. if I got a grounder in the hole, I could fire a strike to 1B, because it was instinct. But thinking about a half-throw to a guy 30 feet away just didn't work. Once I goofed it a few times, it only compounded. Luckily, it was never a situation of consequence. So, yes, there is absolutely a psychological edge to the game that can be pervasive. If my post implied that I thought no such thing, hopefully this clarifies that.
    2.) Being unable to repeat mechanics (either because of complexity, body changes, or both) could lead to bouts of wildness. If your arm slot is changing or your foot placement or your leg lift, all of that throws off your timing and the way you throw the ball. Try throwing a ball taking a normal stride and then one where you stride a foot farther or shorter; you'll like make an errant throw. And I'm sure you reach a point where you simply overcompensate in all directions and are thrown more out of whack.

    My hunch is that it is a combination of factors. Some guys simply lose it, physically and mentally.

    By the way, I am disappointed in you for leaving Rick Ankiel off your list of recent yip-sters!

45. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    If By "blood test" you were refering to a possible dirty urine test, that is likely, but many times substance abuse is a symptom or a mask of a larger problem.
    Perhaps once 'off' a certain drug, makes certain people face the demon they were hiding from to begin with.
    There was a player, who's name now escapes me, he was a Met, but admitted severe anxiety and mood swings while trying to quite tobacco.
    Ha, just remembered, it was Pete Harnish, and he too upon his return had control issues. I believe he even missed a start or two because of his nerves.
    Either way, lets root for the D-train

46. BSK Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    "The Tigers placed southpaw Dontrelle Willis and right-hander Joel Zumaya on the 15-day disabled list on Sunday and returned left-hander Kyle Bloom to the Pirates.

    Willis, a former 22-game winner, was placed on the DL due to an anxiety disorder.

    Willis said the diagnosis came after follow-up blood tests showed something of concern. Doctors told him that the condition is treatable and that they'll start him on a regimen.

    spring training
    cactus league
    grapefruit league

    "This is not depression," Willis said. "This is something totally different. This is something where they saw something in my blood that they didn't like. "I'm not crazy, though my teammates might think that I'm crazy." "

    From http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090329&content_id=4083962&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

    The whole situation was sketchy.

47. dukeofflatbush Says:
    May 4th, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    BSK,
    Gotta agree, either your anxious or not... the only anxious blood I ever saw was in John Carpenter's 1980 horror classic remake -THE THING

48. DoubleDiamond Says:
    May 5th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    My most memorable Dontrelle Willis game was this one:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/FLO/FLO200509170.shtml

    The final score does not tell the complete story of the game. How many times would someone even consider the LOSING pitcher in a 10-2 game to have been the star of that game? Well, in this game, that is my choice.

    Willis was totally dominating while shutting out the Phillies for the first 8 innings of this Saturday afternoon late season home game. Vicente Padilla was almost as good, surrendering one unearned run in 7 innings before being lifted for a pinch hitter in the top of the eighth. Ugueth Urbina took over and gave up another run in the bottom of the 8th.

    Thus, Willis took a 2-0 lead into the bottom of the 9th. The first two batters reached, on a single and a walk, but Jack McKeon kept him in the game. The next batter reached on an error, which also scored a no-RBI run. That's when Willis got the hook. McKeon disregarded Earl Weaver's rule of removing a starting pitcher who has done well before he has the opportunity to put on base the guy who represents the go-ahead run that would make the pitcher the losing pitcher.

    But between ineffectiveness by closer Todd Jones and two other pitchers (well, the last of them, Randy Messenger, did retire both batters he faced, but the first of them hit a sacrifice fly), including an error by Jones, the Phillies scored 10 times in that inning.

    The Marlins did not score in their half of the 9th, despite loading the bases on a walk and two singles off Aaron Fultz.

    Willis was responsible for the first three runs of that wild 9th, but under other circumstances, he could have been the winning pitcher or at least gotten a no-decision in that game.

49. John Autin Says:
    May 5th, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    @48, DoubleDiamond -- Wow, I see that 10 straight batters reached base (2 on errors) to open the bottom of the 9th in that game.

    The Phils got 8 hits in the inning, all singles -- as were all 11 hits they had in that game. It was just the 2nd time in the live-ball era that the Phillies scored at least 10 runs without an extra-base hit. No MLB team since that game has reached 10 runs without an XBH.

50. Tuesday Links (10 May 11) | Ducksnorts Says:
    May 10th, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    [...] Cole Hamels triples (Baseball-Reference). Here’s a fun list of pitchers who have hit triples in recent years. Jake Peavy makes an appearance. I remember his 2007 triple. Mainly, I remember him chugging into third base and then falling apart on the mound shortly thereafter. [...]